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2ampress · 2 Weeks Ago

I don't understand the support for union made shirts...like, who wants to pay more for a product made by an organization that is so vested in killing capitalism? I'm not against the shops that are union...just the union itself.
I worked for union shops in the past and the only thing they ever did for me was take my union dues...absolutely no benefit to the employees whatsoever.

logcabin · 2 Weeks Ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2ampress


	I don't understand the support for union made shirts...like, who wants to pay more for a product made by an organization that is so vested in killing capitalism? I'm not against the shops that are union...just the union itself. I worked for union shops in the past and the only thing they ever did for me was take my union dues...absolutely no benefit to the employees whatsoever.

I want to keep an American working somewhere- including myself- doesn't matter to me if it is Union made, but it better be American made and not foreign made.

2ampress · 2 Weeks Ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by logcabin


	I want to keep an American working somewhere- including myself- doesn't matter to me if it is Union made, but it better be American made and not foreign made.

You will need to do a bit more checking into what shops are American made, as to where these shops get their material for making the shirts...do they import it or use domestic fabric? And how about the machinery they use to make the shirts...is that equipment American made?
And how about the workforce...are they citizens or migrant workers with visas? Or maybe these Made in the USA shirts are produced by the illegal alien portion of our population.

pwhite20 · 2 Weeks Ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2ampress


	You will need to do a bit more checking into what shops are American made, as to where these shops get their material for making the shirts...do they import it or use domestic fabric? And how about the machinery they use to make the shirts...is that equipment American made? And how about the workforce...are they citizens or migrant workers with visas? Or maybe these Made in the USA shirts are produced by the illegal alien portion of our population.

Very true, but at least by purchasing clothing made in the U.S. - regardless of where the materials, equipment and employees are from - your money is being put back into a U.S. company and is more likely to be recirculated back into the U.S. economy as well. Even illegal aliens have to buy their necessities if they're here working. No guarantees that all of it would be spent here of course, but the chances are much better that at least some of it will be spent here.

I'd love to see much more awareness brought to the issue since I think the loss of manufacturing in our country has led to a slow decline in the U.S. and the strength of our dollar. The only way for a country to CREATE real wealth is to convert raw materials into finished goods and we do less and less of that as the years pass. I'd love to see the apparel industry boast even more about having clothing that is made in the U.S. by American workers.

2ampress · 2 Weeks Ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by pwhite20


	Very true, but at least by purchasing clothing made in the U.S. - regardless of where the materials, equipment and employees are from - your money is being put back into a U.S. company and is more likely to be recirculated back into the U.S. economy as well. Even illegal aliens have to buy their necessities if they're here working. No guarantees that all of it would be spent here of course, but the chances are much better that at least some of it will be spent here. I'd love to see much more awareness brought to the issue since I think the loss of manufacturing in our country has led to a slow decline in the U.S. and the strength of our dollar. The only way for a country to CREATE real wealth is to convert raw materials into finished goods and we do less and less of that as the years pass. I'd love to see the apparel industry boast even more about having clothing that is made in the U.S. by American workers.

All very true. A good percentage of the migrant worker force send a good portion of their earned money back to their families out of country.

The problem with US companies manufacturing product here is that the greedy government gets in the way and finds reason to tax them on every aspect of their business, making it virtually impossible to make a profit. Thanks to NAFTA, it is much cheaper and easier to buy from a foreign producer than it is to buy here in the US.
Just think about how much cheaper products would be if the taxes weren't so darn high. Nearly 35% of a company's earnings go toward taxes of various flavors. The way the government has it set up right now, they actually punish businesses for producing...and when these new laws get passed to push for "clean energy", the profit margins for manufacturing will be even smaller than it already is. They are literally driving manufacturing out of the country with this ridiculous policy.

logcabin · 2 Weeks Ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2ampress


	All very true. A good percentage of the migrant worker force send a good portion of their earned money back to their families out of country. The problem with US companies manufacturing product here is that the greedy government gets in the way and finds reason to tax them on every aspect of their business, making it virtually impossible to make a profit. Thanks to NAFTA, it is much cheaper and easier to buy from a foreign producer than it is to buy here in the US. Just think about how much cheaper products would be if the taxes weren't so darn high. Nearly 35% of a company's earnings go toward taxes of various flavors. The way the government has it set up right now, they actually punish businesses for producing...and when these new laws get passed to push for "clean energy", the profit margins for manufacturing will be even smaller than it already is. They are literally driving manufacturing out of the country with this ridiculous policy.

Thank you! Although the illegal immigrants send money home, they do buy from local businesses and our economies. The taxing is a big problem here. Buying foreign goods is more economical, but I don't believe in supporting slave labor, sweat houses for making my products and I feel that perhaps American made goods might cost more- BUT WE ARE WORTH IT! It is the same with buying organic food compared to imported food- at least we know how the food is processed and can trust our local farmers.

2ampress · 2 Weeks Ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by logcabin


	Thank you! Although the illegal immigrants send money home, they do buy from local businesses and our economies. The taxing is a big problem here. Buying foreign goods is more economical, but I don't believe in supporting slave labor, sweat houses for making my products and I feel that perhaps American made goods might cost more- BUT WE ARE WORTH IT! It is the same with buying organic food compared to imported food- at least we know how the food is processed and can trust our local farmers.

I see your point, and you can call it slave labor and sweat shops all you want, but just imagine what those workers would be doing for a living if the demand wasn't there. Would they starve to death? If buying overseas is cheaper, and it is gainfully employing someone that needs to put food on the table, isn't that a good thing? I have bought several items from overseas and can honestly say that the quality in products are no less than those purchased in the US. In fact, items I buy from South Korea are by far better quality than what I buy here in the states.
While I want to see our economy regain it's foothold just as anyone else does, I refuse to pay more for a product just because it says "Made in the USA".
If you look at it like this...say I choose to buy shirts that are made in India. I can get them considerably cheaper than if I buy them from a US company. I get to make more profit by doing so, which in turn allows me to use this extra profit to hire employees to grow my business. By choosing to buy overseas cheaper, provides more funds to hire employees, which puts money in their pocket which they will in turn spend on other products that require more demand all around. If I chose to buy from a US company and paid more for them, I would have less profit that I would then not have the ability to hire anyone else, so there is less benefit.

Cheers,

Tracy

pwhite20 · 2 Weeks Ago

Your point about them having to feed themselves too is correct, and I don't think anybody wants people anywhere to starve to death, but I don't think wanting to take care of your own first is all that terrible of a thing either.

You're also making a huge assumption that you can't make money selling products made in the U.S. or that your profit margins would be much smaller. While I agree that it might be difficult to sell exclusively all made in the U.S.A. products, there is a market with high profit potential for it and there are many people like us that are willing to pay a little extra to get it.

logcabin · 2 Weeks Ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by pwhite20


	Your point about them having to feed themselves too is correct, and I don't think anybody wants people anywhere to starve to death, but I don't think wanting to take care of your own first is all that terrible of a thing either. You're also making a huge assumption that you can't make money selling products made in the U.S. or that your profit margins would be much smaller. While I agree that it might be difficult to sell exclusively all made in the U.S.A. products, there is a market with high profit potential for it and there are many people like us that are willing to pay a little extra to get it.

Thank you! It isn't that we don't care about the people of other countries, but we are watching more and more of our own businesses go under that are manufacturers so that we, Americans, can get more bang for the buck- no thank you- I believe in helping our own first- where will our grandchildren work later?

2ampress · 2 Weeks Ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by logcabin


	Thank you! It isn't that we don't care about the people of other countries, but we are watching more and more of our own businesses go under that are manufacturers so that we, Americans, can get more bang for the buck- no thank you- I believe in helping our own first- where will our grandchildren work later?

I completely understand and am not here to say it can't or shouldn't be done. It is a tough market out there at the moment. I just closed up my offset printshop that I had in operation for 7 years. It was a company I started in my basement and at one point was doing 3/4 million a year and had 7 employees. Over the course of the last two years, the market really went soft and I wasn't even breaking even each month. Deciding to call it quits was very difficult, but have come to the realization it was the right thing to do.
I am now in the process of setting up a screen printing operation and will take a very different approach than last time.
I have no loyalty to buy US made products, as I stated before, if I can make better profit buying overseas then that is beneficial to my company and affords me the ability to grow. Plus it gives me the ability to be more competitive.
Even though the shirts may not be made in the US, the distribution center where I get them is in the US, so the people working at that facility have a better opportunity of staying employed as a result of my business.
It is my opinion that the market would rebound much faster and in a more positive fashion if the government would keep out of private business affairs and allow the market to function as free enterprise does best.

Cheers,

Tracy

logcabin · 2 Weeks Ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2ampress


	I completely understand and am not here to say it can't or shouldn't be done. It is a tough market out there at the moment. I just closed up my offset printshop that I had in operation for 7 years. It was a company I started in my basement and at one point was doing 3/4 million a year and had 7 employees. Over the course of the last two years, the market really went soft and I wasn't even breaking even each month. Deciding to call it quits was very difficult, but have come to the realization it was the right thing to do. I am now in the process of setting up a screen printing operation and will take a very different approach than last time. I have no loyalty to buy US made products, as I stated before, if I can make better profit buying overseas then that is beneficial to my company and affords me the ability to grow. Plus it gives me the ability to be more competitive. Even though the shirts may not be made in the US, the distribution center where I get them is in the US, so the people working at that facility have a better opportunity of staying employed as a result of my business. It is my opinion that the market would rebound much faster and in a more positive fashion if the government would keep out of private business affairs and allow the market to function as free enterprise does best. Cheers, Tracy

Isn't that what makes the world round? I am trying to be totally loyal to US made.....good luck to you.

pwhite20 · 2 Weeks Ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2ampress


	I just closed up my offset printshop that I had in operation for 7 years. It was a company I started in my basement and at one point was doing 3/4 million a year and had 7 employees.

Sorry to hear about your offset print shop. That's a bummer since it sounds like it was doing really well at one point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2ampress


	I have no loyalty to buy US made products, as I stated before, if I can make better profit buying overseas then that is beneficial to my company and affords me the ability to grow. Plus it gives me the ability to be more competitive.

You're not alone in this philosophy, but it does come at a cost. Looking at it over the short term you might do better, but when everybody starts operating that way it begins to take its toll on our economic stability. A country with weak manufacturing has less ability to turn raw materials into consumables which is the only true way to create wealth. By continuing to send all of our business overseas where they have increased their manufacturing capacities, thus making their economies stronger, we are damaging our own economy in the long term and making it weaker. This means that what happened to your offset print shop starts happening to more and more business with each little collapse that our economy goes through. We'll eventually end up being a county owning nothing but a bunch of worthless paper and IOU's because we gave all of our abilities to manufacture wealth away for the sake of short term gains.

2ampress · 2 Weeks Ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by pwhite20


	Sorry to hear about your offset print shop. That's a bummer since it sounds like it was doing really well at one point. You're not alone in this philosophy, but it does come at a cost. Looking at it over the short term you might do better, but when everybody starts operating that way it begins to take its toll on our economic stability. A country with weak manufacturing has less ability to turn raw materials into consumables which is the only true way to create wealth. By continuing to send all of our business overseas where they have increased their manufacturing capacities, thus making their economies stronger, we are damaging our own economy in the long term and making it weaker. This means that what happened to your offset print shop starts happening to more and more business with each little collapse that our economy goes through. We'll eventually end up being a county owning nothing but a bunch of worthless paper and IOU's because we gave all of our abilities to manufacture wealth away for the sake of short term gains.

So true, and the only real incentive to get companies to buy domestically is to get the government to ease up on taxes, so the local manufacturers can actually compete with those that are overseas. Think about it, there are two major factors as to why US made products are more expensive...the burden of taxes. A company wouldn't have to price their products so high if it were not for the taxes they have to also account for. And the second is unions. Unions actually served a purpose back in the early coal mining days when companies would take advantage of their employees. But with the laws already set up today, all a union really does is cause manufacturing costs to be higher than they otherwise would be. If a business is mistreating it's employees, there are laws now that protect them...no need to get a union involved anymore.
As it was commented in an earlier post, union shop prices are usually higher than non-union.

Cheers,

Tracy

logcabin · 2 Weeks Ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2ampress


	So true, and the only real incentive to get companies to buy domestically is to get the government to ease up on taxes, so the local manufacturers can actually compete with those that are overseas. Think about it, there are two major factors as to why US made products are more expensive...the burden of taxes. A company wouldn't have to price their products so high if it were not for the taxes they have to also account for. And the second is unions. Unions actually served a purpose back in the early coal mining days when companies would take advantage of their employees. But with the laws already set up today, all a union really does is cause manufacturing costs to be higher than they otherwise would be. If a business is mistreating it's employees, there are laws now that protect them...no need to get a union involved anymore. As it was commented in an earlier post, union shop prices are usually higher than non-union. Cheers, Tracy

It definately doesn't help us with Employment Security raising fees and Labor and Industries also in Washington State.

pwhite20 · 2 Weeks Ago

On the taxes point, I totally agree with you. I think we do pay too much in taxes which makes it more difficult to compete. I think government waste needs to be reduced drastically so we can get our tax rates under control.

As for the unions, I think there are both good and bad qualities to having them, but I do agree that they sometimes abuse their powers just as many companies will take advantage of their workers. In either case, nobody ever plays nice unless they're required to do so and either side will always try to take advantage of the other if they see an opportunity. While it may be easy to say that unions are bad, many businesses aren't much better, and unfortunately I think they're still necessary to keep balance.

The one thing that probably effects our ability to compete more than anything is that we have a standard of living and operate by a higher code of ethics than many other countries. Even our homeless live better and make more money panhandling than some people working in factories in third world countries. With that higher standard of living comes higher wages no matter how you slice it. If we're willing to give that up and work under the same conditions and have the same lifestyles that they do we could easily compete, but I seriously anybody here is going to be the first to raise their hand to volunteer for that proposal. The unfortunate reality is that as their standard of living slowly increases, our is going to go down. What we're seeing is a slow flattening of the global markets because of a shift in production rates to other countries. This isn't the first time this has happened, but in the past there was always a strong "Buy American" sentiment in the U.S. to prevent it. I haven't seen that happen yet this time around.

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discussion: trying to understand the support for union made products