Discuss the various aspects of heat pressed vinyl transfers. Popular and new types of vinyl media, suppliers, vinyl cutters /plotters, press times, quality, how to instructions and more can be found in this heat press sub forum.
Sorry to keep starting threads, but I'm really confused on what I should do. I have a DTG Kiosk 2 with White ink and the Wims system. On light colored shirts, the thing is simply amazing. Even though I never have white ink issues (clogs and problems getting a thick underbase), I'm not very happy with the finished result. Laundering is not that great. Also, the pretreatment process sucks. I'm not in a position to own both a Versacamm and a DTG, so should I sell my Dtg and buy just a Versacamm. I run about 100 to 200 shirts a day, and I don't know the speed, quality, and cost of the Versacamm for this. Somebody who uses their versacamm consistantly for shirts, please speak up and sell me on it. Do shirts end up looking cheap because of the vinyl feel? What do your customers think? What is a real cost for small 5" by 3" simple color text prints? Are the prints vibrant? I really need some help deciding on this, so please fill me in??
You really should give ScubaSteve a yell......he has great info on the VersaCamm.....
I would suggest you get a print from a VersaCamm, so you can feel the 'hand' of the print on the shirt.....
I, too, have a DTG (no white ink here).....and invested in the VersaCamm a couple months ago......one thing I have found w/ the VersaCamm on printing for shirts (I use the printable shirt vinyl from Imprintables) that small lettering is pretty tricky to cut around w/ the VersaCamm w/o having problems...the shirt vinyl is pretty thin, so I sometimes have problems w/ the lettering.....and also, watch the type of fonts you use on the shirt vinyl....a simple block type font is fine, but something pretty skinny or fine, you can have problems w/.
200 shirts on an 8 hour shift would give a production time of 2.40 minutes per shirt.
It would be interesting to know if you could print,weed ( if needed) cut and press in the same time.
You might also have to consider the extra costs, vinyl and electrics, plus the fact that some people might not like the plastic feel on the shirt. Just my opinion.
hmmm, this is something to think about. Alot of the designs we do are as small as 4" wide by 2" in height, and mostly lettering. I wonder if I can change some of the designs to work around that problem. I've really got to solve the printing on black issue, as it just doesn't cut it in quality. Josh from imprintables is sending me some samples, but now I'm a little worried about how small some of our designs are. I'll hit up Scuba Steve and see what he thinks. My plan is once I get an order to print all the designs and cut them in one run for all the shirts, then weed them. I figure it would balance in time with the DTG because of pretreatment, switching shirts? Thanks alot for this info. This is really a hard decision without running one for awhile. We offer over 300 designs, and currently have quite a few customers. I don't want to invest in the Versacamm, sell the DTG, and end up screwed. Thanks a lot for this info you two. If anyone else has some advice, please please tell me.
hmmm, this is something to think about. Alot of the designs we do are as small as 4" wide by 2" in height, and mostly lettering. I wonder if I can change some of the designs to work around that problem. I've really got to solve the printing on black issue, as it just doesn't cut it in quality. Josh from imprintables is sending me some samples, but now I'm a little worried about how small some of our designs are. I'll hit up Scuba Steve and see what he thinks. My plan is once I get an order to print all the designs and cut them in one run for all the shirts, then weed them. I figure it would balance in time with the DTG because of pretreatment, switching shirts? Thanks alot for this info. This is really a hard decision without running one for awhile. We offer over 300 designs, and currently have quite a few customers. I don't want to invest in the Versacamm, sell the DTG, and end up screwed. Thanks a lot for this info you two. If anyone else has some advice, please please tell me.
If you are dealing with one-two color designs, the Eco-Film line from Imprintables and just a regular vinyl cutter may be a better cheaper solution and is easier to weed and transfer. Basically you just cut it mirrored, weed, and press. Weeding is pretty easy as they use a strong mylar tape that holds your lettering on quite well.
Solutions opaque you have to print, let cure (to prevent edge lifting on small letters/etc), send back through to cut, mask, then transfer. I usually let my solvent prints cure for 12 hours before cutting. Sometimes getting the material to pull away from the backer with mask is a pain on solution's opaque as well.
I offer DTG on lights/whites with a Brother GT541, for dark colors I utilize both Eco-Film and Solutions Opaque, although I charge quite a bit more for the darker colors because the process is quite longer than DTG. Most of my customers just want onesie twosies.
If you are dealing with one-two color designs, the Eco-Film line from Imprintables and just a regular vinyl cutter may be a better cheaper solution and is easier to weed and transfer. Basically you just cut it mirrored, weed, and press. Weeding is pretty easy as they use a strong mylar tape that holds your lettering on quite well.
Solutions opaque you have to print, let cure (to prevent edge lifting on small letters/etc), send back through to cut, mask, then transfer. I usually let my solvent prints cure for 12 hours before cutting. Sometimes getting the material to pull away from the backer with mask is a pain on solution's opaque as well.
I offer DTG on lights/whites with a Brother GT541, for dark colors I utilize both Eco-Film and Solutions Opaque, although I charge quite a bit more for the darker colors because the process is quite longer than DTG. Most of my customers just want onesie twosies.
Thank you soo much for getting back to me! I feel like my head is spinning. The reason I was thinking the Versacamm is simply because it eliminates the steps of print, then take to cutter. Because I'm printing quite a few shirts a day, I could print all of them and then cut all, then weed. Does this Eco-Film work on the Versacamm? Why do you say it is good for one to two color instead of more? What exactly is the difference between solutions opaque and Eco-Film? Can they both be printed on?
I think my biggest concern now is that a lot of our designs are small text. Do you think I'll run into issues working vinyl with small text?
Again thank you soo much. All this info is really helping me.
Hey Joe, ultimately, I wish I could do what you're doing (keep the DTG for lights, and use the versacamm for darks) Unfortunately, I only have the funds to have one of these machines. Would you feel confident using just the Versacamm for all your shirt designs on all colors and sizes if you didn't have the Brother?
Hey Joe, ultimately, I wish I could do what you're doing (keep the DTG for lights, and use the versacamm for darks) Unfortunately, I only have the funds to have one of these machines. Would you feel confident using just the Versacamm for all your shirt designs on all colors and sizes if you didn't have the Brother?
There is a light version of Solutions Opaque called solution's clear, I'm unsure how different it is. If there was a way to get it to weed and mask easier, I could possibly utilize it for shirts full time.
Is garment decorating going to be your specific trade? If so, then I'd say go either DTG or learn screen printing (especially if you're doing bulk orders 60+ of a single design).
However, if you're looking at producing things such as banners, posters, vehicle decals, and signs, then the Versacamm is a very worthwhile investment and will open up a wide variety of opportunities outside of the garment world as well. The way I see it, is the Solutions line opens up the possibility to produce t-shirts for sign shops that probably already have the equipment without having to purchase anything extra other than a heat press. There are some individuals that may use it solely for garments and it may work for some target audiences, but I'd guess the majority of the users are probably sign companies that are expanding the products they make.
There is a light version of Solutions Opaque called solution's clear, I'm unsure how different it is. If there was a way to get it to weed and mask easier, I could possibly utilize it for shirts full time.
Is garment decorating going to be your specific trade? If so, then I'd say go either DTG or learn screen printing (especially if you're doing bulk orders 60+ of a single design).
However, if you're looking at producing things such as banners, posters, vehicle decals, and signs, then the Versacamm is a very worthwhile investment and will open up a wide variety of opportunities outside of the garment world as well. The way I see it, is the Solutions line opens up the possibility to produce t-shirts for sign shops that probably already have the equipment without having to purchase anything extra other than a heat press. There are some individuals that may use it solely for garments and it may work for some target audiences, but I'd guess the majority of the users are probably sign companies that are expanding the products they make.
I actually sold my screen printing equipment to buy the DTG, lol! I wasn't very good at it though, and the equipment was cheap. I could do one color designs and that was about it.
Right now, I am solely a shirt printer. We wholesale shirts to different companies and rarely sell retail. I like the idea of using the Versacamm for both shirts and stickers, banners, car wraps, etc. The world outside of shirts is completely new to me though, and I would have to learn how to market the banners and other things. The Versacamm seems much more versatile for this. Right now though, I have to keep my customers happy with the shirts, and I'm afraid to trade machines and then the Versacamm doesn't work for shirts like the DTG. I ultimately have to solve this problem of Dark shirts looking like crap after 3 washes. I never know what I'm going to get in an order, so getting plastisol transfers won't work as minimums are high and it cuts into cost quite a bit. Sometimes I have an order for 2 shirts of one design. I don't see outsourcing to screen printing as a possibility because it would cut way too much into cost because we wholesale. I could try and learn to screen print, but we offer so many designs, burning all the screens just seems like it would cost tons, and take a long time to master.
I wonder if I can lease the Versacamm for just a month to see if it will do alright. I think the quality will be fine, but I'm still worried about not being able to weed small text designs. I've seen some examples on this forum of people who have weeded out tiny detail, but I get the impression that it took a long time. None of our stuff is that intricate, it can just be very small.
Are you printing your own designs or doing contract printing? DTG and a Roland is not like comparing apples to apples.. ie: DTG is far cheaper to do shirts than a versacam and it is a far faster process.
A good transfer is pretty costly per sq ft and time to print/weed ect. is ridiculous
I do contract work and got my Brother for Shirts and Roland for Digital printing, case closed.
I don;t do darks and will never because to time consuming and not profitable if you base yourself as contract printing for other people.
Kevin,
Quite the choice between the two. I can try to shed a little light on the subject. The DTG will have advantages over a versacamm in some areas, and the versacamm will be better in others. From a strictly t-shirt point of view, I think they are about even. You will be able to do the exact amount of detail on both for light shirts as the versacamm has clear solutions material that has the ability to print and adhere to almost anything with little weeding if you design your cutlines properly. The solutions clear has much better expandability than anything else I have seen printed onto a garment, including screen printing! We have samples in our shop printed on spandex material and challenge customers to "stretch to thier hearts content" and it comes back to its original form beautifully.
From a dark garment point of view, there are pluses and minuses to both. The DTG will win on garments that have fine detail and/or small lettering. The versacamm will have to be weeded to remove unwanted areas and can be time comsuming on that. If you make your design with this in mind and work around those areas, you will have less of a problem. The versacamm would be tedious at best trying to make a design with paint splotches or a distressed look. The flipside is durability! The versacamm wil win hands down in this category. The prints look amazing and the wash and wear great! There are several different materials to work with that also include special effects that cannot be done with a DTG. You have several different thicknesses of materials to work with also that can change the "hand" or feel of the garment. You really need to see and feel the materials to get a good grasp of it. In dark garments I would give the thumbs up to a DTG for fine detail and small lettering or distressed designs, and a thumbs up to everything else on the versacamm.
For everything else, the versacamm rules! I understand that you are running alot of shirts. If you wanted to do anythng else, the DTG is useless. This is where the versacamm really shines! You can do everything from banners, decals, signs, magnets, car wraps, etc on the versacamm. It really pays for itself! If you can, I would talk to Josh at Imprintables and see if they are willing to sponsor you out to the training I give at my shop. It is a 1 or 2 day course that covers everything on the versacamm and has a hands on section where you will make all of the different shirts using the versacamm! We also make banners etc. over the two days so you can really get an idea of what is possible in your shop.
To address the quantity of shirts produced in a day, I would say that they are about even. We have done huge orders of over 300 shirts in a day using the versacamm and I would say it goes faster at some points as you can streamline production a bit. I can run some prints and be weeding them while the next set is printing, then have another person pressing while the first two steps are going. If you are using a DTG, you have to wait for each print to finsh prior to starting the next. We usually set prints up this way to maximize work flow.
I hope all of this helps. Let me know if there are any other specific questions that I might be able to help with.
Joe - You can set up opaque solutions for a one shot quicker process. In versaworks, setup the print but perform a cut only and have it return to orgin. then print the design. It will make all of the cuts, then return to the beginning and print everything. You do not need to le tthe print sit overnight and cure to have it cut. By cutting first, you de stress the material and prevent it from curling after printing. I do this almost every day inour shop and it works like a charm!
First of all, I really really have to thank everyone on this forum who has been absolutely gracious to me with all the advice and help. I wouldn't have made it this far with out you all. I love you guys! Major props to all of you, especially Peggy, Josh, and Steve.
Mr Big Jack. You say that the Versacamm is more expensive to print shirts? I heard that ink cost was around 22-26 cents per square foot, and that vinyl cost was relatively low. I've just heard it's more expensive from some, and less expensive from others.
I just recently went through my closet and pulled out all my printed shirts that I've bought over the years. One of the shirts I have is definitely a vinyl transfer. The vinyl on this shirt feels awesome, though I don't know what type it is, as I bought the shirt on ebay years ago. There's tons of tiny detail, and it looks like whoever made it must have weeded the hell out of it. The vinyl itself looks as nice as the day I bought it (no cracks, nothing) when the black cloth is faded after many many washes. My screen printed shirts, though still looking nice, are somewhat cracked.
I'm still really torn here. I'm going to go see the Versacamm in action on Monday at a local dealer here. From what I've heard on the forum, the vinyl that Roland supplies for shirts is pretty crappy, but at least I can get an idea of the prints. Josh and Peggy are also sending me some samples with good vinyl, so I think this will really help me see what is possible. I can't thank you two enough for your graciousness in doing this for me.
We go back to market in September, and I'm hoping I can have this issue resolved and decide whether or not to keep the DTG, or sell it and go with the Versacamm.
22 cents a sq ft LOL. ah I laugh myself to sleep on that, yea 22 cents if you printing at 360 by 520 for high speed banner mode, try closer to 55 cent (atleast for 720x720) and add cost of $2 to $3 sq foot on material and don't forget waste you'll have on sides of material and towards end of roll.
Than there is part were takes a few minutes to set it up to cut right way if you don't got Flexi sign software.
also gotta take time to align properly and bam there goes thoughts of it costing you a dollar to whatever imaginary number you come up with, with factors I set into play
22 cents a sq ft LOL. ah I laugh myself to sleep on that, yea 22 cents if you printing at 360 by 520 for high speed banner mode, try closer to 55 cent (atleast for 720x720) and add cost of $2 to $3 sq foot on material and don't forget waste you'll have on sides of material and towards end of roll.
Than there is part were takes a few minutes to set it up to cut right way if you don't got Flexi sign software.
also gotta take time to align properly and bam there goes thoughts of it costing you a dollar to whatever imaginary number you come up with, with factors I set into play
Sean, I agree that it is not 22 cents a square foot (although they are pricing just ink at that price) but more like 40 to 50 cents a square foot for ink alone. As for the substrate you are printing on, 2 to 3 dollars is not far off for some garment materials. For other materials like banner or decal vinyl, you will be down to 20 cents or less a square foot. I really do not see eye to eye with you on the flexi comment. I have flexi and think that it sucks, and use Corel and versaworks to do everything. There are no problems aligning anything with versaworks and no need for extra software. For garment material it will cost 2.50 and up per square foot but the cost per print can be much less than that as you can fit multiple designs into a square foot.
Versacamm Owners? Should I sell My DTG? 
