Need to Register?

nabs · September 24th, 2007

Hi Everyone,

I need to make a decision, something which I have posted about before and I'm a little confused about and having a hard time making a decison. I have the 4800 from Epson with sublimation on one side and chromablast on the other. As you know, the chromablast brings beautiful color but borders to the designs.

Last week, I went to a dealer of the GX24 to see if the chromablast paper would cut through the machine but for some reason they were not able to tell me because it was only set up for vinyl. I don't know too much about cutters and if that's possible or not but that was the case and I left very disappointed.
If the chromablast paper was to cut through the GX24 then I would purchase it and simply use that with my chromablast.

Does anyone have chromablast and a GX24?

My second option is to purchase a color laser printer, possibly a Okidata C8800. I purchased the Magic Clip paper and used it with my current color laser ( i know it isn't the same as having the Okidata C8800) and the transfer to the shirt was simply awful. I don't think it is nothing like working with sublimation, chromablast or inkject inks but that is just my observation.

Anyone have other ideas for me? I'm confused but I really don't want to work with borders and I really want to get this business up and running.

Thanks,
Nabs

darryld · September 24th, 2007

i thought the chromblast paper didnt need to be cut?

rrc62 · September 24th, 2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by nabs


	I purchased the Magic Clip paper and used it with my current color laser ( i know it isn't the same as having the Okidata C8800) and the transfer to the shirt was simply awful.

Which printer did you use? It matters. The Oki printers are so highly recommended for a reason. Do you mean ImageClip? Never heard of Magic Clip. If it's image clip you used, the 1st stage pressing procedure is very critical. Times and temps have to be on the money. Once you get it though, ImageClip will give you a true borderless print. It took me about 20 sheets of ImageClip before I had the procedure down.

I'll probably hit Staples this week sometime and buy a C3400 to take on the road. The C8800 just doesn't travel well. I'll just be limited to 8.5x11 when I'm on the road.

NicMartel · September 24th, 2007

the confusion gets more convoluted as I go... have you tried the HPCL transfer paper from BESTBLANKS... which by the way says: steer away from OKIDATA and some other printers because OKI fusers are TOOO HOT ??? ...and of course the HPCL has to be cut and be fused with the White backing as the 1st step before pressing it to the garment? Am I even within your issue??

NicMartel · September 24th, 2007

oops... I am talkin ink transfer am I not? and u r speakin sublimation!!!
well then, perhaps I can make a useful comment... My findings are that doing sublimation with a Laser is just not worth the improvement in cost over a bulk inkjet system and the quality of imprint yet does not justify the extra investment in the laser... by the time you have paid for all of that, the technology will have improved and made your printer obsolete... so why not stay with the least cost for about the same results.!! I hope I make sense... I am investigating furiously, thus subject to misinterperetations. Of course if your volume justifies it... then it could be worth it... perhaps... (Confused)

Lnfortun · September 24th, 2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by NicMartel


	the confusion gets more convoluted as I go... have you tried the HPCL transfer paper from BESTBLANKS... which by the way says: steer away from OKIDATA and some other printers because OKI fusers are TOOO HOT ??? ...and of course the HPCL has to be cut and be fused with the White backing as the 1st step before pressing it to the garment? Am I even within your issue??

NicMartel,

I have replied to your PM to me. I explained to you that HTCL is just a numbering system Bestblanks use. It is actually Techniprint. I have red how hard it is to peel and the image cracks. Other user claim that Oki printer is doable with techniprint. You can actually use just about any brand of color laser transfer paper that is proven to work with oiless color laser printer for what you are trying to do. Such as Duracotton HT, Spectral Laser, Imageclip ( Two step process. Actually I used it with opaque. Read up in this thread Airwaves' Opaque and Imageclip there is a very lengthy process in how I used Imageclip)

Try also Ironall for dark. It is one step. It is made for inkjet but I was able to make it work with color laser printer.

Lnfortun · September 24th, 2007

Nabs,

In my opinion Imageclip will solve your problem. Since it is self weeding in a sense. I said that because sometimes some polymer specks will be left in the unprinted area when the two papers are peeled apart. A little bit will not show on the pressed image. I have a solution for that and some that tried it claim of having very good result. You said you've tried Imageclip and to you it was awful. Imageclip is a little tricky to use. Make sure you do not use the green paper to transfer your image on the shirt. I am guessing and I hope not you may have pressed the green paper on the shirt that is why the image looks terrible. Few user's have done that becasue the green paper is described as transferring paper in the instruction. Or if you used the red paper you may have a lot of polymer in the unprinted area or void in the printed area. Either way these conditions will give a negative result.

Check these photos absolutely no border and how good the image quality:
http://www.t-shirtforums.com/attachm...e-dscn0194.jpg

http://www.t-shirtforums.com/p127002-post4.html

Thiese show the image quality nothing to do with borderless issue:

http://www.t-shirtforums.com/attachm...p-dscn0013.jpg

http://www.t-shirtforums.com/attachm...cn0143web1.jpg

I said Imageclip will be the answer but then again you got too much money wrapped up already. Buying a cutter is pricey as well as tabloid laser printer. So it is a tough decision to make. Unless you have other plans for the cutter then it might the way to go.

nabs · September 25th, 2007

Hi Luis,

I'm confused and thank you for taking the time and sending all the images. Am I not supposed to print on the red paper and then press the red with the green paper using imageclip. After this press the green paper using the press using the higher temperature? Please let me know if I'm wrong, that's what I thought and how I read it. The image didn't come out right because the laser I was using is older but I was simply testing to make sure this was just an option before buying another piece of equipment.
I was told by Conde yesterday that the GX24 was not an option for me and the chromablast paper because it would not cut the paper. I don't have a problem buying the laser if that's the way to go, like I said before I really want a positive solution for clients with borderless transfers.

rrc62 · September 25th, 2007

With ImageClip, you print on the red, then press the red to the green at 210*, then press the red to the shirt at 400*. The polymer is on the green sheet. When you press the red and green together, the polymer on the green sheet adheres to the toner on the red sheet. This is why time, temp and pressure is critical. Too much of either will cause lots of polymer to transfer to the white areas. Too little will cause the polymer to not bond properly to the toner. I can't put my fingers on the thread, but Luis has figured out a procedure for getting near perfect first stage pressings every time.

With the laser you'll also have the option of using DuracottonHT. It leaves a polymer window, so if I can work some sort of definitive border into my design, that's the paper I use, otherwise I use imageClip using Luis' silicon baking mat procedure.

Lnfortun · September 26th, 2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by nabs


	Hi Luis, I'm confused and thank you for taking the time and sending all the images. Am I not supposed to print on the red paper and then press the red with the green paper using imageclip. After this press the green paper using the press using the higher temperature? Please let me know if I'm wrong, that's what I thought and how I read it. The image didn't come out right because the laser I was using is older but I was simply testing to make sure this was just an option before buying another piece of equipment. I was told by Conde yesterday that the GX24 was not an option for me and the chromablast paper because it would not cut the paper. I don't have a problem buying the laser if that's the way to go, like I said before I really want a positive solution for clients with borderless transfers.

Nabs,

That is what I thought that was happening. The instruction is ambiguous that some users interpret the green paper is the one to use to press on the shirt. I was confused myself when I first read the instruction and was wondering why the image has to be mirrored on the red paper and then press the green paper. It just did not add up. So, I kept going over the instruction until I finally decided to press and peel the papers apart and realized that the polymer was transferred on the red paper. Essentially nothing left in the green paper. They should change the term "Transferring" paper for the green paper. Actually the polymer from the green paper is transferred to the red paper in areas that have toner. That is probably why they called it transferring paper.

I suggest that you start over. This time use the red paper to press on the shirt. While you are at it use my procedure for peeling the two papers apart. It really helps improve the polymer transferred to the read paper. No\ polymer void and minimum polymer on the unprinted area. Excessive polymer in the unprinted are can be a problem in light colored shirts which will produce the box that you are trying to get rid off. I also posted on how to minimize cracking.

You HP printer will be ok provided it has good wash ability. It might be that the HP is all you need. Try pressing a couple of shirts and do wash test.

Regarding the cutter I wonder why Conde did not explain to you that the transfer paper can be put on a carrier sheet and cut it that way. I suggest that you contact Josh Ellsworth of Imprintables Warehouse and explain to him what you are trying to do. They sell GX24 as well. Somewhere in the forum he has posted something in that line. He also have videos posted in youtube.com. Goto youtube.com and search the website using GX24 as keyword.

There is a link for Imprintables Warehouse in the forums.

Good luck.

Let me know if you need furhter assistance.

Lnfortun · September 26th, 2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by rrc62


	With ImageClip, you print on the red, then press the red to the green at 210, then press the red to the shirt at 400. The polymer is on the green sheet. When you press the red and green together, the polymer on the green sheet adheres to the toner on the red sheet. This is why time, temp and pressure is critical. Too much of either will cause lots of polymer to transfer to the white areas. Too little will cause the polymer to not bond properly to the toner. I can't put my fingers on the thread, but Luis has figured out a procedure for getting near perfect first stage pressings every time. With the laser you'll also have the option of using DuracottonHT. It leaves a polymer window, so if I can work some sort of definitive border into my design, that's the paper I use, otherwise I use imageClip using Luis' silicon baking mat procedure.

Sorry, Duracotton leaves a white box in light colored shirts after the shirt has been washed. As a matter of fact there was a photo posted in Duracotton thread that shows how obvious the white box was.

The manufacturer and distributors admit to that. That is why they suggest to use it primarily on white or ash shirts. The white box might will show even in ash not sure though. I did buy a sample pack of Duracotton. I did not pursue trying to test it when I saw that post. I did not even open the package. It is laying somewhere collecting dust. I can't even find it anywhere. That's how badly I forgotten about it. I am not knocking it down. It is a good product. I am sure there are a lot of users that are successful using it and very happy with it. It is just not for me. My 2 cents. Duracotton is not an option that Nabs is looking for.

I have made mistakes with Imageclip but not like what happened to Nabs. It is far worse. I was not paying attention when I printed the image. I did not mirror it and went ahead to print 60 transfers that way. But I use the bad transfer to my advantage. I used them to experiment in coming up with a procedure on how to peel the papers with very minimum polymer in the unprinted area and improved polymer transfer in the printed area. Otherwise I would hesitate to the experiment because of the cost of the transfer papers.

Nabs here is the procedure that rcc62 and I are referring to http://www.t-shirtforums.com/p160268-post7.html

rrc62 · September 26th, 2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by lnfortun


	My 2 cents. Duracotton is not an option that Nabs is looking for.

I agree. It does leave a polymer window, but if your design has a hard border or frame around it, Duracotton produces nice results with less work. Just another laser option. When I'm pressing on location, I'm usually working with limited space and time, so I put a frame around my artwork so I can use Duracotton....Something like the image attached. When you're working alone and trying to press, do artwork and deal with customers, it just makes life a lot easier.

NicMartel · September 26th, 2007

rrc62,

What is the substrate used in that pic of the chopper?
Thank you.

Lnfortun · September 26th, 2007

Sorry Nabs, The link for the peel procedure did not take in my reply to rcc62. I know it was there last night. I even tried it after I posted my reply to make sure it worked. Anyway I added it again in my reply to him. Just in case it goes away for whatever reason here it is also http://www.t-shirtforums.com/p160268-post7.html. It is a redundant copy but at least one should stick.

Lnfortun · September 26th, 2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by rrc62


	I agree. It does leave a polymer window, but if your design has a hard border or frame around it, Duracotton produces nice results with less work. Just another laser option. When I'm pressing on location, I'm usually working with limited space and time, so I put a frame around my artwork so I can use Duracotton....Something like the image attached. When you're working alone and trying to press, do artwork and deal with customers, it just makes life a lot easier.

I agree. Nabs' problem as understand it is her designs have a lot of unprinted areas and she uses light color shirts as well.

BTW are making enough to justifygoing on the road and sell printed shirts? I am thinking about doing the samething but not sure how to go about it to get started.

Can you comments on the type of events, equipments to take, qty of materials to take and other misc. info? How do find theses events?

Thanks.

Need to Register?

Resources

T-Shirt Sites

GX24 or Okidata C8800 Color Laser to solve problem? Making Decision?