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Xeon · May 14th, 2008

Ok, ok, cool down, guys! I must thank everyone for the replies here cos' I got carried away and almost wanted to spend several hundred dollars on that, and the yearly updates cost additional (btw, big boys like Canon, Simens etc, use their software too, according to their Clients and testimonials page).

Thanks to DaveM for the long long post as well.

What stopped me from buying it was:

1) I tested one of their "satisfied clients" website on Google and no matter what keywords I use (based on the keywords in the client's webpage), it doesn't come up in any results

2) I read their testimonials page and a lot of SEO companies seem to be using this software......so I was thinking to myself......if this software is that good and the SEO companies are using it too, then I'm still back to square one cos' I'll be competing against those guys with the same tool, but I've less expertise.

Only thing is that I'm intrigued how they can make such a powerful and daring guarantee, though. I've never seen anyone made such claims before.

Rodney · May 14th, 2008

SEO isn't something you have to pay for, Xeon

I gave you some good steps to take in the other thread about SEO. It may take a while, but if you follow those steps, you should be on your way to ranking better for the terms you want.

daveM · May 14th, 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodney


	Dave, please keep things professional without attacking other members

Ill tell you what. I'll totally apologize-- and cheerfully, too-- to darryld if he can explain and support a couple statements he made:

1. How PPC (paying for keywords) increases the organic search rankings for any site. Of course, citations or links to respected docs on the web that support it. IOW, just because he sez so, don't make it true.

2. "its very easy to get into the top 10 google results for anyone." LOL. If it was we'd all be millionaires already after reading a $15 "dummies" book on how to do it.

I think both those statements are pretty much BS and completely false. Both just further confuse the waters about SEO. Those types of statements are part and parcel of the reason most lay folks, like xeon for example, are baffled by SEO. There is so much wrong, outdated, and misleading information being continually pumped out by peops who really don't know what they are talking about.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodney


	It IS possible for a company to promote SEO service and STILL be actually providing PPC services to their client. That is obviously what Darryl is talking about. It may not be the ethical thing to do, but it's not something that is unheard of.

right. But the OP, xeon, was asking about a company that sells DIY software to roll your own SEO. Here's the first line on their home page if he bothered to read it at all:
iBusinessPromoter (IBP) is a multi-award winning website promotion software tool. IBP helps you get high search engine rankings:

They don't do the work for you, hence there is zero chance of hidden PPC purchases. In fact nowhere on their site is a mention of PPC. So that whole line of thought is moot, OT, and just plain confusing to folks. It's a non-sequitor.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodney


	Some companies have been known to sell SEO services and actually be paying for PPC on those keywords hoping that their clients won't know that when they are now showing up in the top 3....

ah. now we're at the crux of my objections.

When you say "showing up in top 3", are you talking about top 3 in the "sponsored links listings" section, or top 3 in the "organic listings" section? Two separate and easy to distinguish listings. Buying your way to the 1st link in the "sponsored" section is NOT considered part of the "rankings" aka the organic results, aka serps.

Basically, are you two calling the "sponsored links" listings, "rankings", by mistake?

You both insist that somehow PPC "gets you into top organic rankings". I fail to see how a PPC campaign affects the organic listings. There is absolutely no direct or scientific evidence to support that -- unless you and he can cite some docs to back up your claims.

If you are a webmasterworld forum reader, you'd know that anecdotal evidence-- no proof, just many reports-- is that after starting a PPC campaign, many found their organic search results actually lower for their PPC keywords.

Here's a link to support my point that PPC does NOT affect rankings ( and I consider that site to be very reliable source of seo info):
Can PPC Listings Affect Organic Rankings? - Search Engine Watch

and here's a whole parade of google links about the 'PPC' relationship to 'organic rank'.:
PPC increase organic rankings - Google Search

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodney


	There is no need for the type of rude/flaming posts in this forum. It's not what these forums are about.

Fair enough. But let's resolve the issues Ive noted above. If Im wrong, as mentioned, I will duely apologize to everyone involved and never be mean again.

However, having followed and/or particpated in the whitehat seo game for over 10 years, I have a pretty decent idea that some of the statements made were pretty misleading, or at the very least way off the mark.

dave

Rodney · May 20th, 2008

Quote:


	Basically, are you two calling the "sponsored links" listings, "rankings", by mistake? You both insist that somehow PPC "gets you into top organic rankings"

I never insisted that at all.

The point I was trying to make was that SOME companies will CALL the sponsored results the "organic" results to customers that don't know better.

So they will tell the client that their "rankings" are in the top 3 even though they PAID for the top 3 via sponsored keyword ads. Does that make sense?

Rodney · May 20th, 2008

Quote:


	iBusinessPromoter (IBP) is a multi-award winning website promotion software tool. IBP helps you get high search engine rankings: They don't do the work for you, hence there is zero chance of hidden PPC purchases. In fact nowhere on their site is a mention of PPC. So that whole line of thought is moot, OT, and just plain confusing to folks. It's a non-sequitor.

The part you may be missing here is that the software gives you instructions on what to do get the top rankings.

So it is possible that the software will tell you "you need to login to adwords to bid to get the top rankings for that position". It's possible.

This is from their website:

Quote:


	Follow the instructions and benefit from top 10 search engine rankings on Google & Yahoo! IBP tells you in plain English and in great detail what you have to do to get a top 10 ranking for your specific keyword in the search engine you've chosen.

Since we don't know exactly what the software does, it is *possible* that they are using a marketing hook to confuse newer website owners into thinking that you have to "pay" to get top rankings by using adwords or yahoo search marketing.

That's why PPC was brought up. Not to confuse anyone, just to explain what some of the "gotchas" might be in that type of overhyped pitch.