Ended up not sending this email after all, my wife talked some sense into me. The numbers I know might be a little high but they're close enough if you include the PITA factor for researching for and picking up supplies to produce quality prints. Original email is at the bottom.
Hope all is well with you, and I didn't end up doing shirts for Los Altos I can't imagine
what happened thanks for asking.
Five dollars a shirt is a real good deal,*I appreciate you thinking of me xxxx, it's just impossible for me to offer prices like that.
Most of my customers need extra services like printing on different color shirts, small runs, artwork clean-up,
quick turnaround and just a lot of things which usually I don't even anticipate but for just printing*when you've got
your artwork all ready and another printer for less, then I think I'm typically not a good fit.
At any rate quantity is a major factor when printing shirts as well as how many colors in the design.
I can't seem to open your file format (.p7s extension) but I could do $5 a shirt at one color/one side with a minimum of 48 shirts.
I pasted an article that I saw a while back which shows the real numbers and inserted a typical job
which is a good indication of what I'm telling you.
ITEMIZED COSTS FOR PRINTING SHIRTS
2.86 *each shirt (quality shirt like AAA or more for a beefy-t)
.25 * *ink (plastisol)
5.00 *fuel to pick up shirts (shipping is more)
12.00 screen emulsion for each screen (photosensitive emulsion)
2.50 for each screen positive 13" by 18" transparency
1.20 * pigment ink for each positive (transparency) x4
EXAMPLE ORDER: For a 36 shirt order with 2 colors / 2 sides figure the following (costs are more for 2xl's and bigger)
102.96 for all shirts
36.00 *for all ink (plastisol)
5.00 fuel for pick-up of shirts
48.00 for screen emulsion - each screen (4 total)
10.00 for positives total of four - with no mistakes or re-prints
4.80 for pigment ink printed on positives
TOTAL = 206.76 *(cost only, no profit, or mark-up, or labor time included)
Right now costs are at $5.74 per shirt ($206.76 divided by 36 shirts = $5.74 )
now let's say I did this order for $5. a shirt your total would be $180.00 (YOUR PRICE 36 shirts x $5.)
After about:
1/2 hour - going back and forth with emails for approval-meeting-revision-payment-etc
1/2 hour - cleaning up artwork for separations
1/2 hour - color separations
1/2 hour - printing films and exposing screens then post exposing
1/2 hour - taping off and registering screens
1/2 hour - going to pick-up shirts
3 hours *- counting / printing shirts
1/2 hour - cleaning screens (scoop xtra ink, remove tape, wash out, re-apply emulsion)
TOTAL LABOR HOURS = 6.5
MY PROFITS (OR MORE LIKELY LOSSES)*
gross profit or loss for this order = * negative ($-26.64)
sales tax to pay each shirt = .48
actual profits or losses = $-1.22 per shirt
TOTAL LOSS = $-43.92
*this is assuming nothing went wrong or the shirts (mis prints) or didn't need to be shipped (at extra cost).
*does not include artwork time for creating original design which would add about 1-3 more hours to art time.
*this doesn't account for sizes which cost more for shirts 2xl and up.
*does not include overhead - electricity(shirt dryers 7k watts) - water (clean screens) - rent (space allotted for printing)
*does not include wear and tear on vehicle shirt pick-ups, equipment use, computer.
*does not include software applications for artwork formats and separations, or printer wear.
*
Okay, now let's see how much I made for this job which in a world with no problems would take 6 1/2 hours
to print.
FORMULA: Profit divided by hours labor = $$/per hour
$-43.92 / 6.5 hours = *$-6.75 per hour*
So not only don't I get paid (profit), I actually loose $6.75 per hour. I hope I don't get busy cause then
I'll have to get a side job.
*
---- On Mon, 5 Oct 2009, xxxxxxxxxx
(xxxxxxxxxxx) wrote:
-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxxxx
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 11:19
To: 'xxxxxx'
Subject: Shirts.
xxxx.i hope alls well w/ you.did the deal go thru w/los altos t shirts? Well we about due for more shirts,I have a request made by my guys,our old t shirt cat printed out shirts up for 5.00 a shirt you charge 8.50 some say it is a little pricy, I would like to continue to give you our business, my question ......is there a medium amount we can agree on as far as a new price for shirts to be printed? maybe somewhere in between 5.00 and 8.50?think about it and send me a reply when you get a chance. Take care , xxxxx
Re: Almost sent out this email - am I out of line?
No need to show your customer your pricing structure. If your price is $8.50, then it is $8.50. Apparently there is some reason that they are not using their "old t-shirt cat". Remind them that the price goes down with quantity ordered.
Re: Almost sent out this email - am I out of line?
yeah stay firm. maybe the old cat went outta biz or printed that job in the 80's and they still expect the same price.
I so hate printers that would do small runs for those prices.
Re: Almost sent out this email - am I out of line?
Very straightforward and made your point, however, I agree that you should not give your price breakdown to a customer. If you can only do them at $8.50 for that quantity then that is what you can do. Based on your breakdown you could probably drop down a little but you definitely do not want to undercut yourself.
Re: Almost sent out this email - am I out of line?
You have to decide if losing or keeping their busines is what you need. Alot of people will "Say" someone offered for less just to see if you will go lower. If you really want to keep their business you might offer to meet them in the middle at around $6.75 a shirt as long as they will order a set minimum. They approached you and mentioned a competitiors price. Sounds to me like they just wanted to "pump" you for a lower price. Also....would they get the same quality? I know of a guy on the web who offers 100 black shirts with 4 colors for $2.99 per shirt. I got ahold of one of these rags and it was laughable. Each color was one pass no undercolor. It looked like something I'd clean a screen with.
Re: Almost sent out this email - am I out of line?
Please do not be sending out our costs , especially on blank clothing to your customers. These are industry shared only. This is why apparel prices are coded. This is why only those in the industry have access to price list from suppliers and are invited to trade shows where prices are out on the tables.
This guy says that "some say its pricy" who??? Go get them to print for you. The amount of time you took to right the email already cost you money. Just give your price and move on. If they want to haggle tell them thats the price. Stick to your guns and they will call back.
Re: Almost sent out this email - am I out of line?
I understand your frustrations. Alot of what we are seeing is the current economy people are taking jobs just to keep the machines running. I get people frequently that want just a couple shirts. Keep your pricing where it should be and these dirt cheap operations will either go out of business or be putting out such terrible work no one will go there anymore.
Re: Almost sent out this email - am I out of line?
I think everybody in this industry runs into this type of customer every now and then. It's one thing to be competetive but I wouldn't go that low! I also agree with some of the responses here on revealing your breakdown on costs. I wouldn't give all those prices out. I'd just leave your reply to the customer with what you could do for them at $5.00 ea. (1-color 1-side 48 minimum order) and leave it at that.
Re: Almost sent out this email - am I out of line?
I very much agree with what others have already said. You're not charging more then you should be to cover your costs and make a fair profit. Clients will always want the best deal and some would rather pay less and sacrifice quality (knowingly or unknowingly) for more profit. Clients don't understand your operating costs or what the work actually entails and they shouldn't. Educating them on the difference between printing techniques is different however.
You did the right thing by not emailing them that very detailed letter on your pricing. When i have clients that approach me with quotes from other printers i simply tell them what we can do for them with there budget and give them options. If they think they can get it for cheaper then let them. Often cheaper cost equals cheaper quality or other surprises (hidden costs, minimums ect..) Some clients have to learn the hard way.
Re: Almost sent out this email - am I out of line?
You know, it really felt good to write it down as if I was going to send it but looking back and after reading all of your thoughtful posts, I'm glad I didn't.
I'm plenty busy thank God, and can afford to fire this customer by simply keeping a decent profit margin and sticking to my quote. This can't be said for every printer out there which prints a "mean" shirt (translation: good prints) which is where this attitude of grinding down prices gets under my skin. Especially when it comes from a public servant making $100k plus annual salary which I consider justified because of their occupation (fire dept).
Re: Almost sent out this email - am I out of line?
I wouldn't get out of bed for what some people are charging. If you are chasing the low baller's prices to stay in business you will be running yourself out of business real quick. I have seen what others get for less and it AIN'T pretty. My customers come to me because they know I put out quality work and I stand behind it. Bite the bullet when you make a mistake but stand firm on your prices. No need show them your costs because they will assume everyone has the same costs and they don't. Only you need to know what you have to do the job. Spending time on "bargin hunters" takes away from the next good paying job. Say Good by and think good riddance.
Almost sent out this email - am I out of line? 
