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cam · May 11th, 2007

I'm a little confused about the allover printing process. On the sunburst website it doesn't specifically say that they do the all over printing using silk screen printing process. It actually mentions dyes.

http://www.sunburstapparel.com/index...&id=2&Itemid=3

is it actually possible to do the allover with silk screen or no?

RichardGreaves · May 12th, 2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by cam


	I'm a little confused about the allover printing process. On the sunburst website it doesn't specifically say that they do the all over printing using silk screen printing process. It actually mentions dyes. Sunburst Apparel - About Us is it actually possible to do the allover with silk screen or no?

The page you linked to doesn't have any belt printers.

Sunburst Apparel - Screen Printing

shows several pictures.

Sunburst (and Pat's original company Printworks) has been a legend in the belt printing market for more than 15 years.

Your confusion could be the term 'silk screen', rather than 'screen printing'. No commercial textile screen printer uses silk.

The 'dye' refers to the ink. Screen printing can control hundreds of inks from thick paste conductive inks for circuit boards to water-based inks pigmented with dye for an ultra-soft hand.

cam · May 12th, 2007

Thanks for the reply Richard!

Quote:


	The 'dye' refers to the ink. Screen printing can control hundreds of inks from thick paste conductive inks for circuit boards to water-based inks pigmented with dye for an ultra-soft hand.

1.Does this mean that it is not common to have dyes inside of the inks?
2.What do you mean by "ultra-soft hand"
3.Do the dyes make the inks easier to work with
4.what do the dyes do to the long term quality of the inks. Does the product retain the high quality long life of other screen printed products not using dyes.

RichardGreaves · May 12th, 2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by cam


	1.Does this mean that it is not common to have dyes inside of the inks? 2.What do you mean by "ultra-soft hand" 3.Do the dyes make the inks easier to work with 4.what do the dyes do to the long term quality of the inks. Does the product retain the high quality long life of other screen printed products not using dyes.

1. There are hundreds of ways to color an ink, like adding flavor to a vanilla milk shake. Hundreds of ink and hundreds of colorants.

Dyes are liquid in nature and can penetrate into cellulose fibers like cotton. Pigments have larger particle size and have to stick to the outside of cotton fibers.

2. Hand is a textile term to describe the way fabric feels when it is touched. Terms like softness, crispness, dryness, silkiness are all terms that describe the hand of the fabric. Plastisol with lots of pigment for dark shirts printed with a heavy deposit on football uniforms has a heavy hand. Soft hand plastisol printed like a stain on white shirts through a fine mesh will have a soft hand. A printed sheet or pillow on your bed has a soft hand. The combination of soft vinyl resins and 'dye' or 'toner' added to the ink will result in a print that you can't feel when you run you finger across the surface.

Dyes and pigment perform the same basic function; to add color. Pigments can provide more viscosity and opacity because of particle size. Pigments usually provide stronger color because they don't penetrate the surface, unlike dyes that are 'soluble' in the ink vehicle or solvent.
Dyes can have superior color fastness and brightness.

Tell me why you are focused on 'dye'? Are you aiming for a desired result but don't want to disclose it?

The best black ink I ever printed was for a custom design for Walt Disney where we printed 'the rat' with non-ionic dyes imported from Italy and mixed at 10% with our hand-made water-base base. Soft and BLACK, but 4 times the money even with the savings from water-base ink.

After one wash, you couldn't tell the difference between the custom ink and the soft hand Rutland Black we regularly used.

Begin with the end in mind.

cam · May 12th, 2007

I didn't have any specific plans in mind. Infact I had no idea that you could get a full print on a shirt using the screen printing process at such small print runs. I'm only in the planning stages of my product but up until know when I've come up w/a design that might benefit from taking up the majority of the shirt I've had to make it smaller to fit the more common printing areas.
One of the things that confused me was when the word dye was used. As I understand it there is a method of printing that injects dye into the shirt so I think this furthered my confusion. There some sites out there that that print one shiry at a time if desired and do everything they can to make you think they screen print when they actually don't. I guess because alot of people are looking for screen print service printing on a one at a time basis.
Thanks for the information!

Solmu · May 12th, 2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by cam


	Do the dyes make the inks easier to work with

Actual dyes are harder to work with.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cam


	what do the dyes do to the long term quality of the inks. Does the product retain the high quality long life of other screen printed products not using dyes.

In theory a quality plastisol screenprint will outlast the garment (if properly printed and taken care of). Whereas plastisol won't crack, dye can't crack, so dyes should give you a better print for the longterm.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cam


	One of the things that confused me was when the word dye was used. As I understand it there is a method of printing that injects dye into the shirt so I think this furthered my confusion.

There's no need to inject dye into the shirt; it's dye, so it does that part on its own.

It's just another print medium. You can use plastisol ink, you can use waterbased ink, you can use dye, etc. - some methods just aren't talked about as much as others.

cam · May 12th, 2007

Thank you

jimhack3 · June 1st, 2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodney


	Speaking of which, I contacted M&R and found another printer with one of their "Predator" machines which should be able to do all over printing: NND Designs NND Designs, Inc. 323-587-3200

I wonder If M&R would give you the names of the companies that have purchased the belt printer, so you can look into doing some business with them. I'm sure that they want to start making some money, so they can pay off the machine.

Jim

jimhack3 · June 1st, 2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by swainy


	Hey, Just reading this interesting topic. Have a query in fact that I think you could answer. Anyone seen hoodies by L-R-G or Bape, etc ? I've attatched some pictures. Just wondering if that would be a belt printing technique ? I'd imagine they were printed and then cut and sewn together, however ? Thanks

Either belt, or large format printer, and yes then sewn together. Would love to have that Camo Bape joint!

Jim

Rodney · June 1st, 2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimhack3


	I wonder If M&R would give you the names of the companies that have purchased the belt printer, so you can look into doing some business with them. I'm sure that they want to start making some money, so they can pay off the machine. Jim

Did you read the message you quoted?

That's exactly what I did (contact M & R)

jasperketone · June 1st, 2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimhack3


	Either belt, or large format printer, and yes then sewn together. Would love to have that Camo Bape joint! Jim

i think most are printed on rolls of fabric, then cut and assembled.

GGSB07 · June 27th, 2007

. They Do all over print tees up to 10 colors. One color all over print tee starts at 7 dollars a shirt with a 100 shirt minimum

Gusto · June 30th, 2007

I have a design which i want across the front shoulder and sleeve and continue till the back shoulder and sleeve. "Cut and Sew" or "all over print", which method is going to give me the best consistency and alignment at the shoulder seems?

jasperketone · June 30th, 2007

cut pieces and possibly a few sets of screens but it depends on the design.. having cut pieces line up from the front body to the sleeves isn't easy either and you have to worry about size grading from S-XL. All over printing is more flexible but it'd be very hard and very slow to line up the print from front to back.

its very easy to imagine a print that goes from front to back and have it align but doing a decent number of pieces per hour in production isn't so easy. you can print the pieces manually and line it up perfectly but on an automatic machine there is probably around a 1/4 or 1/2" variance between sides when you're trying to print 100-150 pcs/hr. good designers that understand production can make their designs work for wrap arounds but most don't understand the difficulty.

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all over printing sources - screen printing print all-over the t-shirt with a belt screen printer

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