Does anyone have any input regarding the new line of waterbased inks from International Coatings? Gen IV eco line i believe is what its called.
Id like to know how this ink compares to Matsui. Specifically with regard to how the ink dries in the screen....which supposedly isnt' supposed to happen with either. My experience with Matsui on 80+ degree temps and over the ink dries very fast in the screen. I have to print late at night and its fast becoming burdensome.
I'd also like to know about its opacity and whether it needs discharge on dark garments.
Id like to know if its time to trash the matsui and make a move.
it's 112 degrees in fresno today. i'm a factory trained gen4 printer and also use matsui 301. don't look to either one of these products for perfection, but compared to plastisol - well there is no comparison. maybe phillip will chime in, he seemed to like gen4 and had been using matsui. maybe it's time for a controlled side by side test. stan
The Gen4 is great stuff. It will dry a little faster than matsui, but not bad. I've only had a few minor screen clogs when printing white, but it was nothing major at all.
The great thing about this ink is the ability to print on an underbase, which you can't do with matsui. It prints beatifully on an underbase and it's less tacky when flashed. For darks, its the solution I was looking for.
It's also great on lights, but it does have more of a hand than matsui. It's much softer than plastisol. But it's still not matsui. So for now, I'm going to keep using the matsui for light colors and gen4 for darks. That'll save a little cash too, since matsui is cheaper.
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Phillip, where do you buy your gen4 inks? I want to try them.
Can you do a bright red on black shirts with a gen4 white underbase then a bright red on top? If you do that with Matsui, you get pink.
I need a good Navy Blue and Bright Red, which Matsui doesn't have RFU. Oh and a nice brown would be good too. I have been using Union Aerotex for those colors but I don't like the ink, too thin.
Phillip, where do you buy your gen4 inks? I want to try them.
Can you do a bright red on black shirts with a gen4 white underbase then a bright red on top? If you do that with Matsui, you get pink.
I need a good Navy Blue and Bright Red, which Matsui doesn't have RFU. Oh and a nice brown would be good too. I have been using Union Aerotex for those colors but I don't like the ink, too thin.
Absolutely! You can print anything with great results on an underbase. This ink prints just like plastisol. It isn't transparent like Matsui.
I buy mine from Atlas Screen Supply or SPSI.
__________________ Newell Graphics - Eco-Friendly Water Based Screen Printing ScreenPrintH2O.com - A Online Community of Waterbased Screen Printers
one of international coatings goals was to make gen4s body closer to plastisol so that printers would be more comfortable with it. the gen4 inks have opacity similar to plastisol. i noticed their white dried pretty fast and was a little cracky after washing. the colors do print nice on a under base. haven't tried a discharge print with it yet
i have contacted my closest distributor in CA and left a message. they have yet to call me back. I hate that. so i'm looking for a distributor that welcomes my business as well.
thanks for the input guys, are you having any issues with cracking?
also, how do you compare the color mixing qualities? i find Matsui quite difficult to match to pantones. the softward doesnt even come close.
are you just eyeballing?
Is the Gen IV a color mixing system with software as well?
thx
Last edited by GREENgarage; July 11th, 2008 at 10:46 AM.
You're right, Matsui is the absolute worst mixing system I've used to date. I can't even believe they market it as a mixing system. I waste so much ink trying to match colors it isn't funny.
The Gen4 formulas and software haven't been completed yet. However, you can use Rutlands formulas and they do get very close. (That info is from someone at IC)
Also, I decided to try reducing the gen4 down a little further today, and I have to say, I think it can be pretty close to Matsui for softness. Not quite the same, but I'm not sure anyone would notice. I may just forget matsui and stick with the gen4, since it's easier to work with and mixes better.
As far as cracking goes, I have noticed that the white isn't as stretchy as Matsui 301 white, but it is still pretty good.
__________________ Newell Graphics - Eco-Friendly Water Based Screen Printing ScreenPrintH2O.com - A Online Community of Waterbased Screen Printers
with the Gen IV it sounds like discharge is not necessary. but.......i notice they have a discharge. do they have a discharge white, and do you know how it compares to Matsui discharge white?
im actually somewhat happy with this product. the other straight discharge matsui product is a mess to work with, which is why i'm looking to Gen IV.
matsui mixing software doesn't run on a mac so i can't use it, and yes it is a pain in the @ss to mix by eye. matsui straight discharge does form a drip sometimes and that is a pain too. i think both brands have their place in our bag of printing tricks. stan
Gen IV ink from International Coatings 
