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plastic · May 5th, 2008

Hi all, I decided to try out screen printing couple of weeks ago, went out and got a "Speedball Fabric Screen Printing Tool Kit" from my local art store. From what I read, it's pretty much a beginner's beginner's kit, very bare bones.
So I burn the screen with my design (My band logo) and it came out pretty clean.

I taped some regular cardboard (around 1/8") on the back as spacers, and used the supplied "squeegee" (really just a hard piece of plastic) and used "Speedball Fabric Screen Printing Ink" (water based ink, didn't add any water or thinner)
Here are the results:
On paper:

It showed up fairly good, except the tip of the plug (left most part of logo). I could actually see the dots of ink.(I can see the texture of the mesh as oppose to a smooth,even line)
Now I print on a T-shirt:

It generally came out ok, except the lines at the tip of the plug didn't really come out:

To my very limited understanding, could it be that the mesh is too fine? Even though it allows JUST enough ink to go through for paper, its too little to deposit on the fabric?

Now my questions:
Given that this kit is called "Speedball Fabric Screen Printing Tool Kit" key word being fabric, how can the mesh be too fine for printing on t-shirts? For those that have experience, what is the mesh count in this kit?

Could it be that my spacer (around 1/8") is too high?

Am I completely off-base and it's something else all together?

And more importantly if I get another frame (say, this time I get 110 mesh count) will the detail show up?

Just for reference, here is the area in question with a penny for scale:

Hope the info I supplied was specific enough.

Thanks in advance for the help...

MotoskinGraphix · May 5th, 2008

I think you probably have a 110 mesh screen in that kit. If you use that screen you might increase the line size on the plug. You might want to move to a higher mesh count as well. Those screens also dont keep tension very well. I have two of them and after a couple prints they are kinda worthless. You can purchase a quality screen with good mesh for $20 or less and is probably cheaper than ordering another speedball screen.

How did you expose the screen?

plastic · May 5th, 2008

Thanks for the reply motoskin. I am alittle confused though, I thought the problem is that I am not putting down enough ink through the mesh? Wouldn't a finer mesh allow even less ink through? Or is this a resolution problem?

My exposure setup was rediculously ghetto hehehe...
Got a 250 watt bulb from my local Wolf Camera, got some 8.5" diameter pie tin from supermarket. Put said bulb and tin onto my desk lamp set it 12" away from my frame. I use 2 layers of the same transparency tapped together, weighted it down with a 3/8" plexiglass on top. Put the whole thing on top of a black t-shirt covered folding chair in my closet. Exposed it for exactly 10 min per instructions. Like I said... Not too professional hehehe...

MotoskinGraphix · May 5th, 2008

I think the line is to thin. I may be wrong as I am new to this as well but I think finer detail the screen mesh goes up and larger detail is ok with a larger mesh. I know a bit of it has to do with the density of inks. The white ink especially. For a jimmy rig exposure I am impressed how fine a line you actually burned. I dont have an exposure set up yet and am using the Ulano films cut on my plotter.

splathead · May 5th, 2008

For your sample paper print to have the lines and your shirt didn't, it means you did not have enough pressure or ink through the entire stroke.

Off contact allows you to lay down multiple strokes if your first stroke was not heavy enough. And you can tell by looking at your design in the screen after the first stroke (don't move the screen). If you don't see any ink in the screen, then it all went on the shirt. But if you don't apply even pressure or ink supply, you might see some of the ink still in the screen after your stroke. you would then lay down another stroke.

The higher the mesh count, the less ink that gets through the screen. So if 110 wasn't laying down enough ink, you would go down to say an 86.

Nice job, btw.

SHELLY53 · May 5th, 2008

I Think You Did Pretty Good For The First Try. Keep Working At It I Can See You Perfecting Screenprinting.

darwinchristian · May 5th, 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by splathead


	you can tell by looking at your design in the screen after the first stroke (don't move the screen). If you don't see any ink in the screen, then it all went on the shirt. But if you don't apply even pressure or ink supply, you might see some of the ink still in the screen after your stroke. you would then lay down another stroke.

agree with joe.

the speedball squeegee if i remember is rounded, and won't easily allow the "cutting" of the ink from the mesh. a sharper squeegee would probably help, but a dry stroke after the flood stroke should clear the excess from the screen.

plastic · May 5th, 2008

Thanks for all the encouragement and tips.

When I exposed the frame, i kind of treated it as a dark room project, I did the exposure in a dark closet and taped the door all the way around to prevent any light leaks that might distort or haze up the print, probably no different than what most beginners do i'm sure... chalk it up for beginners' luck i guess hehe

I am going to try it again tonight with thinner off-contact / no off-contact (is that even done?

) and see how it looks, as I will be eliminating another factor that might contribute to the issue before I get another frame of a different mesh count...

For the t-shirt, I did 2 pulls: flood, pull/print one direction, tilt screen, flood, pull/print the other direction. Did a shirt with just a single pull, the ink was def. a little thin in general and the plug detail was completely missing. When I redid the shirt with 2 pulls, it helped alittle bit, but as you can see from the pictures,some details were still missing.

For the paper, I just did a flood, pull/print.

I'll post my results for lower off-contact / no off-contact tonight.

Thanks all for the help!

splathead · May 5th, 2008

Fortunately, you aren't developing kodak film. a little sliver of light here and there won't have any effect.

Your 1/8 inch off-contact should be fine. I would not suggest no off-contact entirely. It might work fine with one shirt, but if you are doing more than one its going to mess them up. Plus, you will not be able to see if your stroke cleared all the ink through the mesh. You want the screen to pop back into position as the squeegee passes. 1/8 inch is what most of us use on our presses.

If you are laying your screen directly on the shirt to screen (with or without off-contact), I also would not recommend you tilting the screen to flood. No matter how careful you think you might be, i guarantee you that screen is not going back down on the shirt in the exact position that it was. Even a hairline shift will cause your print to look muddy. Flood the screen while it's still laying flat on the shirt (with off-contact). I don't suggest trying to flood the screen without off-contact for the same reason as below.

And my last 2 cents of advice; pull your ink in only one direction. Pull, flood, then pull again in the same direction as the first pull. You'll find your prints will be more crisp.

plastic · May 5th, 2008

Heheh thats good to know, I was paranoid as hell about leaking light and what not...

You are absolutely right on about the tilt flood Joe, I had a hell of a time getting it to line up, good to know that I can actually flood it while the screen is on the shirt (with contacts)

I think if the speedball screen is indeed a 110, and the plug detail is just too thin, I now actually know the resolving limit of the 110 mesh... I have a couple of of designs that might need some adjusting...

Instead of doing the "no off-contact" test, I'll probably try and add a couple of drops of water to the ink and see how that turns out.

Thanks for the great tips!

plastic · May 5th, 2008

Just a quick update.
I added alittle water in the ink to thin it out a bit and printed on paper again. The line that's giving me problems actually shows up better, but just. So my conclusion is that the line is simply too thin for the mesh count.
I'm off to get some more screens and burn more designs. I'll check back again with new results. Thanks everyone for their help, hope this thread helped others out as well.

Auditor Clothing · May 6th, 2008

If that line is too thin using a low mess count like 110 isn't the best solution...its like trying to catch marbles with a soccer net. If you went to like 180ish mesh that line would probably come out much better.

Also as mentioned do not use "no offcontact" as that isn't going to work and you'll end up with ink everywhere and a wrecked t-shirt.

splathead · May 6th, 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Auditor Clothing


	If that line is too thin using a low mess count like 110 isn't the best solution...its like trying to catch marbles with a soccer net. If you went to like 180ish mesh that line would probably come out much better.

The line would come our sharper, but if it's not getting through at all at 110, its not going to get through at 180. It could be you just need to thicken up that line in your artwork.

Auditor Clothing · May 6th, 2008

True..... just thicken up the line and be done with it! haaaha

darwinchristian · May 6th, 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by plastic


	Just a quick update. I added alittle water in the ink to thin it out a bit and printed on paper again. The line that's giving me problems actually shows up better, but just.

you know... it may be that you aren't using adhesive to tack the shirt to the printing surface. the ink may be pulling the shirt a little- especially at the end of the graphic there- which doesn't allow for the ink to snap out of the mesh.

i know my first speedball kit didn't come with pallet tack.

you could buy a can of pallet adhesive spray from many screen supply places online... or you might be able to get away with watering down some elmers to tack that tee down. (just wash it before you wear it...)