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brent · January 28th, 2008

Has anyone done this much? I saw speak of printing cd's with enamel in another thread but not much focus on cd's specifically.
A friend of mine wants me to do a few hundred, if a test batch comes out well.
CD-R's - TDK, screen printable - Polyline Corp.
those would be the cd's

I use matsui waterbased ink. I plan to at least try it. Use maybe a 230 mesh, black ink, and let them air dry for 2 or 3 days.
I dare not flash the cd's or put them through the oven, of course.

anyone have much experience or success doing cd's? Tips?

JeridHill · January 29th, 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by brent


	Has anyone done this much? I saw speak of printing cd's with enamel in another thread but not much focus on cd's specifically. A friend of mine wants me to do a few hundred, if a test batch comes out well. CD-R's - TDK, screen printable - Polyline Corp. those would be the cd's I use matsui waterbased ink. I plan to at least try it. Use maybe a 230 mesh, black ink, and let them air dry for 2 or 3 days. I dare not flash the cd's or put them through the oven, of course. anyone have much experience or success doing cd's? Tips?

You will not be able to print CD's with waterproof inks. You will need an air dry conventional ink or a UV ink. The UV inks require a special UV dryer which are pretty expensive, so the best option is probably the conventional inks. Nazdar makes an all purpose ink, the 59000 series, that works pretty well. You can't use any type of ink as well since some inks are more aggressive and will destroy the burn side of the CD.

You will need to thin the inks down and use some type of vacuum table. If you do not, the CD's are so light, they will stick to the screen. You have to move quickly and use off contact. It's definitely a little more complicated than simple screen printing, but can be done with patience and persistence.

brent · January 29th, 2008

do you mean waterproof or waterbased inks cannot be used?

JeridHill · January 29th, 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by brent


	do you mean waterproof or waterbased inks cannot be used?

Sorry, I meant to say waterbased inks, and that is correct, they will not be able to be used.

wormil · January 29th, 2008

You should be prepared to go higher than 230 mesh - a quick look in Google suggest 355-460. And Jerid is right, you'll need a vacuum table to hold the disk.

It just occurred to me, I have no idea how you would screenprint multiple colors on a disk, it being round. I don't know how you would register the disc for the second color. Wet on wet is the only way I can see of doing this manually.

JeridHill · January 29th, 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by wormil


	You should be prepared to go higher than 230 mesh - a quick look in Google suggest 355-460. And Jerid is right, you'll need a vacuum table to hold the disk. It just occurred to me, I have no idea how you would screenprint multiple colors on a disk, it being round. I don't know how you would register the disc for the second color. Wet on wet is the only way I can see of doing this manually.

230 mesh is the bare minimum with conventional inks. 330 mesh works really well and 230 has a tendency to pile up the ink and can smear. Good point...

As for multiple colors, the first thing is you cannot print wet on wet with this type of ink. You have to let it completely dry before printing another color. Most of the time, with conventional inks, people will print one color and UV inks, they will print up to 5 colors since they dry before printing the next color. One way to register the 2nd color using conventional inks is to build some type of hidden registration into your design. For example, I am attaching a CD design I had done a few years ago. The blue line of the circle would be the actually marks on my platen for placement of the CD. The straight lines line up with the art on the CD. So you would align the CD to the circle, print the blue ink and let dry. Come back and align the CD again but this time, line up the CD art with the straight lines on the platen.

darryld · January 29th, 2008

the epson R1800 has a CD jig so you can print directly on the CD

brent · January 29th, 2008

Not to be obtuse, but what exactly would happen if i used waterbased ink and just let the cd's air dry? Would you be able to scrape off the ink with a fingernail? What would happen if you loaded the cd into a car cd player type drive, would it rub off the ink?

JeridHill · January 29th, 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by darryld


	the epson R1800 has a CD jig so you can print directly on the CD

True, but you need an inkjet printable CD. It will be white on top.

JeridHill · January 29th, 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by brent


	Not to be obtuse, but what exactly would happen if i used waterbased ink and just let the cd's air dry? Would you be able to scrape off the ink with a fingernail? What would happen if you loaded the cd into a car cd player type drive, would it rub off the ink?

Without ever trying it, I can only guess, but my guess would probably be pretty accurate. The reason you are using special inks is you want the ink to fuse into the CD. Too aggressive and it fuses too much and destroys the data on the disc. Not enough and it flakes off.

A waterbased ink will most likely repel and not even dry on the disc until a longer period of time. It's like water on glass. It most likely will bead up. But since it is thicker than water, you may get some type of coverage, but nothing desirable.

Let's say by some fluke that it actually worked, since it's not fused into the CD, it will scratch off extremely easy. Now because of you not printing correctly, it will most likely come apart in a CD player, computer or DVD player, etc. I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of all the equipment destroyed and as the printer, you would be be somewhat viable for your shoddy product.

So the time and money spent to do it right the first time, will be far less than all the damage it would cause in the long run.

wormil · January 29th, 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeridHill


	One way to register the 2nd color using conventional inks is to build some type of hidden registration into your design.

Ah, that explains why I see that style design so often. I haven't done any flatwork (non-textiles) since the early nineties so I'm pretty rusty on that stuff.

ino · January 29th, 2008

I think that the Primera Bravo inkjet printer is especially made for printing on CDs.

JeridHill · January 29th, 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by ino


	I think that the Primera Bravo inkjet printer is especially made for printing on CDs.

Yeah it is. I've never seen those systems, but they are pretty nice in concept. They will burn the CD's and print them. These also require inkjet printable CD's.

I've played around with inkjet printable CD's. They are not cheap. And so far, I might have had a bad batch of 100, because I would guess about 3 out of 4 are bad. I have a hard time burning anything on them. So I just go with blank CD's, silver on silver. I have had very few not burn.

ImageIt · January 29th, 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by brent


	Has anyone done this much? I saw speak of printing cd's with enamel in another thread but not much focus on cd's specifically.

Enamel is a much better choice than a water based ink. Enamel dries to a beautiful gloss and has excellent adhesion. The only drawback to the ink i was using was that it was slow drying enamel.

Since we were doing only 1 color, we only needed 1 screen and 1 platen. We used the screen and disk to eyeball where a cd would need to be sitting on the platen in order for the screen to hit it correctly. We then traced the CD onto the platen. Masking tape was used to mask the outside of the circle while we sprayed adhesive and removed after. This left a circle of adhesive marked with a black outline. From this we just stuck a cd inside the circle and screen printed enamel ink.

There are a number of ways to speed up drying of enamel, such as fans, space heaters or placing outside in the sun. The reason enamel is so slow to dry is because it dries from the outside in, but as the outside dries, it the outside seals off the inside from the air. At the time we printed out cd's, we only had 110 mesh screen, but using a finer mesh would result in less ink transfer and faster drying. Minimize emulsion on the mesh will also help minimize the amount of ink transfers as will a harder squeegee.

fred

wormil · January 29th, 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImageIt


	...we just stuck a cd inside the circle and screen printed enamel ink.

Helpful tip, when printing flatwork you usually use a tab of cardboard or stock the same thickness (or slightly less) than the printed piece to butt the stock against so it will be in the same place each time. Square stock requires three or four tabs, round stock might require more. (there is probably a proper name for those bits of cardboard but I can't remember it, too many years ago) I've printed some weird shapes but never round.

I'm curious, how well did the spray adhesive work out with discs? Did you have to remove residue?

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