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AustinJeff · January 17th, 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImageIt


	With chemicals, "less" does not equal "safer". The magic of DTG is cross polymerization. The pre-treatment combined with the ink under temperature causes a chemical reaction which binds the image to the shirt. To make this happen a small amount of formaldehyde is required. Formaldehyde is listed as a carcinogen in California as is Ethyl acrylate.

Is the formaldehyde in the pretreatment?

Are there still issues if you are using no white ink and no pretreatment?

mk162 · January 18th, 2008

Quote:


	Really? The why is the MSDS of DTG ink show a higher level of risk? If you wish to start playing the game of DTG being safe, in my prior post i listed a link to the A patent for an invention is the grant of a property right to the inventor, issued by the United States Patent and Trademark Office. Generally, the term of a new patent is 20 years from the date on which the application for the patent was filed in the United States or, in special cases, from the date an earlier related application was filed, subject to the payment of maintenance fees. Click here for answers to common patent questions. ", "style=\"border: 1pt solid #000000;background: #FFFFCC;padding: 3px;font-size: 10px;overflow: auto;\"");" class="gal">patent of DTG printing. Which chemicals on the list is safe? methylol acrylamide? methylol methacrylamide? methyl acrylamidoglycolate methyl ether? acrylamidoglycolic acid? formamide? DTG is a chemical cocktail.

Well, I am looking at the MSDS for the each of the Brother inks and guess what...no formaldehyde or any of those other compounds you have listed. It depends on the manufacturer.

I won't disagree that compounds get more toxic as you heat them and they vaporize, or at least it is easier to inhale them that way, but do you really think that the paint thinner/press cleaner or whatever you use isn't horrible. That atomizes when sprayed through a squirt bottle or spray can.

As far as chemical cocktails go, you have to realize that cotton is the most chemically treated plant on earth. I would bet my @ss that there is worse stuff in the dyes than the ink.

karolina · January 18th, 2008

Thanks SketchBox (and everyone else)! I was about to lose hope... Does Aqua offer waterbased? Do you have their website? Thanks again!!!

I did email Rehance about their ink and got this response this morning:

Karolina, we do not sell our inks since REHANCE, it is a process of print then garment dye. Our process allows us to have prints on darker colors shirts, but we start out on white or natural then garment dye.

Not quite sure what he means... Thanks and have a great day!

neato · January 18th, 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by karolina


	Thanks SketchBox (and everyone else)! I was about to lose hope... Does Aqua offer waterbased? Do you have their website?

I'm guessing by the name, 'Aqua' that it is a waterbased ink.

There are plenty of waterbased inks available, I think Permaset is a little difficult to get in the US.

ImageIt · January 18th, 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by the funk


	I use Dupont and dont see any one of those on my MSDS sheets. Not to say there is not any, just not any of those.

In the MSDS, they typically lest the chemicals in broad categories such as "Humectant's" and "Polymer's, which are not specific types of chemicals, but are broad terms covering MANY chemicals. Out of curiosity, i looked up the patent of th DTG ink, which is where i was able to match chemical names to the generic polymer term.

Rohm and Haas's ink patent (7,074,842)

" The inkjet ink binder composition includes an emulsion polymer including, as polymerized units, 1 10%, preferably 3 8%, more preferably 4 7%, by weight based on dry polymer weight, of a first monomer selected from the group consisting of methylol acrylamide, methylol methacrylamide, methyl acrylamidoglycolate methyl ether, acrylamidoglycolic acid, and mixtures thereof. By "emulsion polymer" herein is meant an emulsion-polymerized addition polymer."

Any MSDS with a number greater than 1 contains something which you should start to be concerned with. DTG inks and pretreatements often have a health rating of 2, reflecting the chemicals it contains.

fred

ImageIt · January 18th, 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by AustinJeff


	Is the formaldehyde in the pretreatment?

The formamide is part of the ink itself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AustinJeff


	Are there still issues if you are using no white ink and no pretreatment?

The short answer is that DTG depends on both parts being present. The ink acts like an epoxy when part 1 and part 2 meet (especially under heat).

If part 1 were pre-mixed with part 2, the ink would clog the heads of the inkjet.

fred

ImageIt · January 18th, 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by neato


	I'm guessing by the name, 'Aqua' that it is a waterbased ink.

Jim Jones's kool-aid was also water based. Just because something is water based in no way implies that safe.

fred

mk162 · January 18th, 2008

True, but my point is still this:

IT'S SAFER THAN SCREEN PRINTING. Is it 100% safe, no. Nothing is, not even taunting tigers at the zoo is safe anymore.

the funk · January 18th, 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by mk162


	True, but my point is still this: IT'S SAFER THAN SCREEN PRINTING. Is it 100% safe, no. Nothing is, not even taunting tigers at the zoo is safe anymore.

IMO dtg is safer than sublimation and discharge printing too.

DTG also produces less waste than ANY other printing method, which is good for the earth.

ImageIt · January 18th, 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by mk162


	True, but my point is still this: IT'S SAFER THAN SCREEN PRINTING.

On what level is it "safer"? If we sat down to dinner, with me eating plastisol ink and you drinking your water based DTG ink, i could still be eating my ink, while attending your funeral.

The most hazardous chemical i use in screen printing is lye. The danger of lye is clear and apparent. If i spray my hands with the ink degrader, my skin will be degraded in a similar fashion to ink. To this danger, i wear rubber gloves and eye protection. In the event of contact, i'd flush with water, but not rub.

The MSDS for DTG calls for ventilation for a reason. If you do not have the ventilation, you are acting carelessly and illegally. The vapors are not safe and should not be breathed.

fred

ImageIt · January 18th, 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by the funk


	DTG also produces less waste than ANY other printing method, which is good for the earth.

Say what? DTG shirts begin to look like hell after 1-2 dozen washes. I've got screen printed shirts over 10 years old with several hundred washes on them and they still are some of my favorite shirts. Do 10 year old screen printed shirts have cracks in the ink? YES!, but that is what i love the most.

The waste in the t-shirt business is how fast the shirts end up in the landfill. DTG has a long way yet to go to longevity.

fred

SketchBox · January 18th, 2008

The aqua ink is waterbased, thats the only kind this company makes for textile printing, but it has a ton of colours and the opaque line is very good but more expensive and requires a less dense mesh because it is has the consistancy of mayo, but it works. Permaset by Colormaker heres their site and as someone said before it is alittle difficult to find in northamerica as only one company that I know of supplies the US and a different one supplies Canada so if they run out your kinda of hosed for a couple weeks.

but you can buy it at Permaset Aqua Fabric Ink - BLICK art materials in the states and opusframing.com in Canada.

ImageIt · January 18th, 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by SketchBox


	Permaset by Colormaker heres their site and as someone said before it is alittle difficult to find in northamerica as only one company that I know of supplies the US and a different one supplies Canada so if they run out your kinda of hosed for a couple weeks. but you can buy it at Permaset Aqua Fabric Ink - BLICK art materials in the states and opusframing.com in Canada.

Permaset by Color maker contains Nonyl Phenol Ethoxylate

Environment Canada declared NP/NPE as CEPA Toxic in 2000 (Environment Canada, Health Canada 2000), which calls for substitution by environmentally acceptable substances. In the US, EPA has established new water quality criteria that would limit the volumes or amounts of NP discharged into the environment (US EPA, 2006), and is encouraging reduced use through the Safer Detergents Stewardship Initiative (SDSI). In Japan, the National Institute of Technology and Evaluation is working with industry to further promote replacement for both NP and NPEs (Japan NITE, 2004).

Use of Nonylphenol and Nonylphenol Ethoxylates in P&G Products

fred

mk162 · January 18th, 2008

Depends which brand of inks you are using. That wash results for the Brother inkset isn't that far off from screen printing. Brother inks are extremely durable, I end up throwing my shirts away because they look nasty before the ink fades out.

Get some Brother samples and wash and wear them. I have some that are over 4 years old that still look GREAT! Just the shirts are nasty.

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