You all should be looking at ink-jet type printers at trade shows.
Plastisol ruined the waterbased ink business.
Now, ink-jet is trying to take the trade away from plastisol.
Plastisol designs eventually crack and peel.
if you love a design and want your illustrations to be wearable 20 years from now as in really good artwork, forget the plastisol screen printing and get into the ink jet process.
I hate plastisol....it ran my non-toxic importers of Deka inks out of business.
So let's run plastisol out of business for any new start ups.
It cracks when you put it in a dryer for customers and is NOT environmentally friendly.
Go to a trade show and look at the new technology and let plastisol go away like they did to the wonderful inks from Deka.
__________________ "The t-shirt is my canvas."
Last edited by Artwear By Alida; November 28th, 2007 at 06:40 PM.
Reason: spelling.
Sorry, haven't seen any of my plastisol inks crack after numerous washings. Over the course of 20 years I'd be more concerned about the t-shirt falling apart than the ink, to be honest with you.
If you are a true artist and not just in it for commercial business, you want your shirts to last for 20 years. My daughter still wears a t-shirt she bought in grade school and she is 22.
If you are not in it for the art, and just the business, then do what you like.
Go to a Goodwill store and see if you can find a Rolling Stones or other cool shirt which isn't cracked and a mess.
Sorry, I am in it for the art and the money also.
Andy Warhol is my god for the t-shirt biz.
I am a purist...this is wearable art for me.
You may just be a business person, so you wouldn't understand.
Now, ink-jet is trying to take the trade away from plastisol.
Plastisol designs eventually crack and peel.
if you love a design and want your illustrations to be wearable 20 years from now as in really good artwork, forget the plastisol screen printing and get into the ink jet process.
I hate plastisol....it ran my non-toxic importers of Deka inks out of business.
So let's run plastisol out of business for any new start ups.
It cracks when you put it in a dryer for customers and is NOT environmentally friendly.
Go to a trade show and look at the new technology and let plastisol go away like they did to the wonderful inks from Deka.
There is so much mis-information in this post, I don't even know where to start.
__________________ ScreenPrintH2O.com - An Online Community of Waterbased Screen Printers SignAmigo.com - An Online Community of Sign Makers.
Wow. This cuts right to the bone. How dare y...............nevermind, not relevant. As far as the original post, I am not familiar with American rotex, but if it looks functional and if it will serve your purposes, get it! I just bought a 8 color 4 station Hopkins International press for $1500. There are great deals out there, it just takes a little research. And as far as the negative posts, if you've got a dream go for it. Be resourceful, and you can have a top notch shop for a fraction of the cost of new. My shop is near complete, with less than $4000 invested, and I have all top of the line equipment. Just my 2 cents.
I didn't mean to get anyone upset....it's just when plastisol came onto the market, they ran out my ink supplier out of importing...and from what I see of the inkjet processes, and how they can afford to print without doing minimum runs like most printers have a two dozen minimum....and with the ink jet process, the person I know who stays contantly busy can do the whole process by himself, the graphics and then do runs. I think the printer cost $18,000. and the he has a dryer.
All I am saying is that the technology is changing faster than a rabbit being chased by a fox. And it depends on what market you are trying to market to......and your competition and the population demographics in your area and also how good your designs are.
I apologize if I offended anyone...but I still have not found anything to replace the sort of inks which were non-toxic and suited what I was doing. It took me two years to find something similiar, but I don't like them. I still have not found anything to replace my Deka inks.
Try searching for phthalate free plastisol. Seems to be a more earth friendly ink, with durability.
Everyone has an opinion, its just realizing that others opinions can differ from your own. {Tons of people here will stand up for plastisols durability}
And about the Plastisol cracking, the funny thing is that the rolling stones shirt that is cracked and worn looking, would be worth MUCH more now because of that!
Try searching for phthalate free plastisol. Seems to be a more earth friendly ink, with durability.
Everyone has an opinion, its just realizing that others opinions can differ from your own. {Tons of people here will stand up for plastisols durability}
And about the Plastisol cracking, the funny thing is that the rolling stones shirt that is cracked and worn looking, would be worth MUCH more now because of that!
I really like the new "screenless" technology....I think it's going to be the wave of the future..and more environmentally friendly, but not sure....you are trading a higher electric bill instead of labor, so who knows.
I found this site surfing....cost analysis for digital garment printer....
I know Andy Warhol would roll over in his grave, and screenprinting is going to be a lost art one of these days...but I think not for some years, because of the cost of the the printing machines.
But I just love the soft feel, like the old waterbased inks.
Combine that with organic cotton shirts and maybe there will be less toxins in the environment down the road from the industry....
Anyway, 'nuff said from me.....again, sorry if I offended anyone.
Alida- Water based ink has come a long way, staying pretty eco-friendly, keeping the soft hand feel. It's going to make a comeback with new revolutionary ink lines, such as Matsui. DTG machines aren't as good as screen printing for large production and a properly done print, in either water based or plastisol, will outlast the shirt, without cracking peeling or fading.
Alida- Water based ink has come a long way, staying pretty eco-friendly, keeping the soft hand feel. It's going to make a comeback with new revolutionary ink lines, such as Matsui. DTG machines aren't as good as screen printing for large production and a properly done print, in either water based or plastisol, will outlast the shirt, without cracking peeling or fading.
Can you name some brands for me which are non-toxic water based?
Cafe press uses the ink jet type, although that isn't what they call it....and the ink goes into the fabric and they are soft. The old Deka inks also went into the fabric.
I know Andy Warhol would roll over in his grave, and screenprinting is going to be a lost art one of these days...but I think not for some years, because of the cost of the the printing machines.
But I just love the soft feel, like the old waterbased inks.
Combine that with organic cotton shirts and maybe there will be less toxins in the environment down the road from the industry....
Alas, what are the toxins in plastisol inks you are afraid of? What do you wish to avoid? I don't know how any person could ingest t-shirt ink of any kind, much less anything toxic or poisonous.
Perhaps you are afraid of toxic fumes like the kind that evaporate from air dry or water based inks?
Water based inks are usually about 80% liquid that evaporates into the air including chemicals like formaldehyde, urea, humectants to retard evaporation and mildicides to retard bacteria growth. On some minor level, air pollution. Do you know what made the Dekaprint cure without heat?
As I have written in the past, "I love water based ink, but I would never a swallow any of it because of the chemicals in it. I would swallow plastisol, because I know what the common chemicals are." Rat poison dissolved in water is a water based product. That doesn't make it safe.
And have no fear, the new water based inks will give you the same feel as the old water based inks and I don't know that it has somehow improved or become different. It has always been available with soft resins and bright fabulous pigments.
Plastisol is 100% solids. Nothing evaporates. Nothing can escape to pollute, but you do have to invest in a curing oven.
Properly cured, a plastisol print will never crack. If it cracks, you know it was under cured. Period. None of the soft-hand plastisol Jimmy Buffet "Cheeseburger In Paradise" or hundreds of other designs I printed 25 years ago CAN CRACK, because the ink stained the shirt just as all wet-on-wet printing can do.
But, for the deep rich big solid areas of color for printing Mickey and Minnie Mouse, imported Italian non-ionic pigments, mixed into a water-phase ink was the best, and still cheaper than plastisol!
I love water based prints because the ink is much cheaper, brighter and softer than plastisol - although it requires special handling and curing equipment.
__________________
How are you measuring? retired Ulano Technical Support Screen printing since 1979 - SGIA Academy Member
Last edited by RichardGreaves; December 9th, 2007 at 09:28 PM.
I would jump on that press. for $500 bucks even if it needs a little tlc you can justify the repairs. Let me know if you decide not to buy it cuz I probably will.
One of my father's friends who had an auto body shop died from all the paint he inhaled from paining cars.
Oh, sure, plastisol is just great.
I also had friends who worked building fiberglass boats and didn't bother wearing masks.
A new t-shirt place just opened in my town...great aritist graphic artist, but when you go into his shop, the solvent odor is evident.
Hey people, if you don't think some of the t-shirt processes are not toxic, you are living in a dream world.
One of my father's friends who had an auto body shop died from all the paint he inhaled from paining cars.
Oh, sure, plastisol is just great.
I also had friends who worked building fiberglass boats and didn't bother wearing masks.
A new t-shirt place just opened in my town...great aritist graphic artist, but when you go into his shop, the solvent odor is evident.
Hey people, if you don't think some of the t-shirt processes are not toxic, you are living in a dream world.
Do you think everyone can afford a DTG printer? Whats with the negativity? This is a great business that nearly anyone can jump into with very little startup money.
There are risks in everything one could do in this world, even walking out to the mailbox... Pleaase don't cut down someones dream because you don't like something.
This is supposed to be a site for helping each other and finding answers to questions. We all have to start somewhere, just because you may have a DTG printer, doesn't mean we all can go that route.
Hey I do custom graphics on vehicles and you are comparing apples to oranges when it comes to auto paint and plastisol ink. Fiberglass? man your out in left field. I would wash my hands with plastisol ink and not worry a bit.
You remind me of a friend of mine who swears elmers glue is toxic and should be removed from all schools.
I have yet to hear about( does not mean it didnt happen.) A screen printer working with plastisol inks for decades dying from exposure to them. Maybe you are talking about sign inks which happen to be solvent based. plastisol is a pvc base and gives off negligable VOCs when cured.
Hey I do custom graphics on vehicles and you are comparing apples to oranges when it comes to auto paint and plastisol ink. Fiberglass? man your out in left field. I would wash my hands with plastisol ink and not worry a bit.
You remind me of a friend of mine who swears elmers glue is toxic and should be removed from all schools.
I have yet to hear about( does not mean it didnt happen.) A screen printer working with plastisol inks for decades dying from exposure to them. Maybe you are talking about sign inks which happen to be solvent based. plastisol is a pvc base and gives off negligable VOCs when cured.
lol. Exactly!
I don't know what you're smelling when you go to the guys shop, but plastisol does not smell like solvents.
Maybe he's using Mineral Spirits to clean up with. Now those are toxic. But there are other safer alternatives.
I am not going to get into a debate about non-toxic and "green" graphic design here....the old ways with the dark rooms where horribly toxic.
I am just saying, as artists, we should lead the way in non-toxic industrial practices....I mean Van Gogh died from the lead in his paint and licking his brushes...
So okay people......I am not going to debate it.
But I am targeting the market who wants non-toxic "green" manufacturing.
You all do what you want to.
I am not responding to anything else in this topic,
As artists, we should be leaders in the industry.
You want to have toxic products and no ventilation using vinyl and other toxic emulsions...go for it.
That's not my market.
Oh, Hazmet and OHSA, come see this place!!!!!
Do what you think is right....put money before the environment.....
Re: I'm about to buy....opinions 
