SoulDoubt

Just my dos centavos here....i understand and fully agree with the whole "what's legal/illegal" aspect of this thread. However, realistically, most companies will not sue you for copyright infringement if there is not a significant amount of $$$$ involved. This is how soooooo many swap meet vendors and small mom and pop stores get away with it. There just simply isnt enough A) money to go after or B) distribution amount (meaning that these businesses as a singular entity do not sell enough single items of illegal clothing) to warrant a full blown lawsuit. Also, while i am not 110% sure, i feel safe saying that while yes it is possibly illegal to print a logo on an employee's uniform, i doubt that many judges or juries would award even a schilling for such a lawsuit. Specifically since it was at the behest of the employee and also because there is VERY little indication that the printer was trying to be malicious in profitting from said transaction. All this being said...it is almost always illegal to do anything with any type of famous anything on it. But, will you be sued is an entirely different subject.

 

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Jasonda

Quote: Originally Posted by SoulDoubt However, realistically, most companies will not sue you for copyright infringement if there is not a significant amount of $$$$ involved.

There are several "mom and pop" members of this forum who have been issued cease and desist or have had other legal action taken against them for copyright or trademark infringement.

Big corporations already have big $$$. They stand to lose money by going after someone who doesn't have any, and yet they still do. Mostly when they go after small timers they are doing to protect their intellectual property from being diluted in the marketplace.

 

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VIRIGN-PRINTER

Hi, interesting thing this trademark/copywrite. I am in the UK and would question the use of "LOST", if it were a single word on a plain background surely that does not infringe anyone? If it did, then the smart guy would simply copywrite every word and sue everyone who used them in print, on paper or shirt. Surely it must be shown by the "owners" of a phase or word from such a show that your item DIRECTLY referenced their work? Corruptions of the word Microsoft some to mind, and any of those would surely be sued, the word microsoft is a manufactured one by the owner (it did not appear in the dictionary before BILL), likewise toys r us (I do hate that corruption of the English language). As to celebrities faces, although they surely own them they are part of the general public and as such if you were to take a picture of one (or pay someone to take it) the image becomes yours and you are free to do with it as you wish.
I used to be an estate agent (real estate) and a neighbour of a client called into the office saying we were advertising his house (we were not), the guy lived next door to a house we were selling and part of his house was in the advertising picture! I checked with a solicitor (lawyer) (you never know these days!!) and he said "if it in public view and you capture the image it is yours and you can with it as you wish", same applies to Cher? Of course selling a Cher 2008 tour shirt would I am sure open the floodgates of hell (for many reasons)!!
All of the above may not apply in the US?

 

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Rodney

Quote: As to celebrities faces, although they surely own them they are part of the general public and as such if you were to take a picture of one (or pay someone to take it) the image becomes yours and you are free to do with it as you wish.

The laws on this will vary depending on where you live. In many places in the US, this would be illegal under "right to publicity" laws.

Quote: I am in the UK and would question the use of "LOST", if it were a single word on a plain background surely that does not infringe anyone

It depends on a lot of factors. For example, there is intent and how much it might mislead potential customers.

If you are selling a bunch of TV knockoff t-shirts that try to skirt the gray line of intellectual property rights laws and you include a LOST t-shirt in your lineup, you can bet ABC studios will probably come after you. In this case, it would be pretty clear to a reasonable person that you're trying to make money off of a TV show.

If you have a line of t-shirts that are a bunch of one word tees about sad things "LOST", "FORLORN", "UNHAPPY", "MISGUIDED", then ABC Studios *may* come after you, but they probably wouldn't have a case (i'm not a lawyer, so don't take my word on that). In that case it doesn't appear to a reasonable person that you're trying to make money off of their TV show.

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VIRIGN-PRINTER

Sliding away from shirts a little, does this mean that TV/movies etc use only paid extras to fill a background shot? surely not, Joe Public can be seen along. If one of those JP's were Cher would they have to re shoot? pay her? You have freedom of speach but not sight? If one were to photograph ones own car (ford dodger) in front of the empire state building, printed it on a shirt and sold it, would/could anyone sue?

 

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SoulDoubt

I didnt mean to say that it NEVER happens...in recent memory there are a handful of companies that aggressively protect their trademarks. I think though that by and large, most large companies do not go aggressively after small companies and at most send a cease and desist letter which is basically a really friendly way of saying "if you dont stop or we catch you doing this again, your financial testicles will be on the chopping block". I would NEVER suggest that somebody goes and infringes on copyrights of clothing companies (i.e. like making your own DC or Izod shirts) but, there are differeing levels of danger there as with anything else. If you went and made Kroger tee shirts there is a degree of danger...that being said, if you went and made Nike tee shirts, there is a significantly (and i do seriously mean SIGNIFICANTLY) higher danger involved. Kroger (who is a groercy store chain) isnt in the business of selling clothing while Nike most assuredly is thus, Nike will skewer you alive and eat your entrails while Kroger might not even know that strange things were afoot. I guess what i should suffice to say, if your thinking of breaking copyright laws, at the very least be educated about who you are ripping off otherwise you shall find yourself in a rather sticky situation. believe me, when you get sued for infringement, it isnt cheap or easy to get out of and usually gets into the six figures rather rapidly. is the juice worth the squeeze?

 

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SoulDoubt

not 100% sure but i believe i read somewhere that if celebrities are photographed in public then there picture is public domain (see paparazzi). Also, if you took a pic of your car and put it on your shirt i highly doubt that ford (for example) could or would say anything about it. MAYBE they could complain about badging, but again, what judge or jury would allow such a case? basically you couldnt take any pics of anything (whether you owned it or not) and post it anywhere other than maybe your living room.

 

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Solmu

Quote: Originally Posted by SoulDoubt However, realistically, most companies will not sue you for copyright infringement if there is not a significant amount of $$$$ involved.

There are a few problems with taking this approach. One, is that it looks unprofessional (which may or may not matter; if you're running a bootleg business it's a non-issue, but if you have bootlegs within a legitimate business it could harm your legitimate business). Two, there are some companies who vigorously defend their trademark: it doesn't matter how insignificant the amount is, they want to pound everyone into the dirt. Three, plenty of companies won't go after everyone, but they will randomly go after a few insignificant fish to make an example to the others. If you get caught in that crossfire (a random gamble) then they will do everything they can to completely ruin your life (i.e. they won't stop until you're bankrupt).

Like all law-breaking it's a gamble what's going to happen. But the fact that you may get away with it, doesn't mean we should advocate it.

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Solmu

Quote: Originally Posted by VIRIGN-PRINTER does this mean that TV/movies etc use only paid extras to fill a background shot?

To my knowledge, yes. It's one of the (many) reasons it costs so much money to shoot a film. You need to pay to shut down an entire street, then pay people to come and be in your movie. Perhaps not every movie is shot that way, but it's certainly how it's done by big Hollywood films.

I've known a few people who've done extras work... it mostly involves sitting around all day waiting for the star to stop having a temper tantrum so the scene can get shot; meanwhile you're playing cards and earning a lot of money eating catered food. Long, dull hours, but not a bad way to earn a quick wad of cash.

Getting into the legalities of what you can and can't do with people's images is a long, boring discussion... and not particularly relevant to the t-shirt forums. Ultimately people are just looking for a loophole, and all we'd end up doing is talking for many pages about why there isn't one. There's big money in this... it's been done to death in the courts... Joe Schmuck ain't coming up with a loophole that a hundred others haven't already tried and had stomped on by Rich Lawyer Guy.

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mystysue

not only do they have to pay the people who are shown on camera.. they have to get a signed release.. for movies and such..
and they have to pay any one who has property in the neighborhood that it affect. We just got paid a few months ago when they filmed a will smith film next door to our shop. even tho the shop was not pictured.. and Yes they do block off the section they are filming in so others are not in the shot.

 

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Sheepsalt

Quote: does this mean that TV/movies etc use only paid extras to fill a background shot?

It's already been answered, but, Yes, absolutely. Every face, every time.

Ever watched "Cops"? See how sometimes they blur out people's faces? That's not a courtesy - that's because those people refused to sign the release to allow their image to be used in a commercial video project. I'm sure you've seen that in other shows as well.

The only exception I suppose would be the "newsworthy" exception for press type broadcasts.

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tshirtn00b

Quote: does this mean that TV/movies etc use only paid extras to fill a background shot?

Sometimes what you may think are extras are really 3D computer graphics. Computer-generated imagery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

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PostRenaissance

Hi everyone, i just read all these posts and had a question myself. Sooo, what if someone wanted to get the rights to print on a shirt, how is that done? for example, there are so many Joker Shirts being sold right now, most of them with Heath's joker. These are different companies selling these shirts. They are all over ebay and online. So did they all get the rights to sell those. and if so, How would you go about getting the rights to use those images.

Also curious, if you ask for the rights to use an image, say from DC comics, how does it work in most cases? do you have to pay upfront a certain amount, or would they get a percentage of any sales?

Thankz

 

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Jasonda

Quote: Originally Posted by PostRenaissance there are so many Joker Shirts being sold right now, most of them with Heath's joker. These are different companies selling these shirts. They are all over ebay and online. So did they all get the rights to sell those. and if so, How would you go about getting the rights to use those images.

Either they got the rights, or they didn't. If they didn't, the movie people (and ebay) will probably be coming after them. If you want to get officially licensed to sell that kind of merchandise, you will need to contact the production company that made the movie.

Quote: Originally Posted by PostRenaissance Also curious, if you ask for the rights to use an image, say from DC comics, how does it work in most cases? do you have to pay upfront a certain amount, or would they get a percentage of any sales?

It depends on what kind of agreement you would work out with them, but most likely they would want royalties.

 

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PostRenaissance

Cool. Royalties (%) is way better than paying a lump sum up front.

Also curious, do parody laws protect t shirts like they do other media?

 

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