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emulsion + exposure newbie help



 
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Old October 9th, 2007 Oct 9, 2007 7:48:15 PM -   #1 (permalink)
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Default emulsion + exposure newbie help

Hey guys,

I’m new, so first off... Sorry

Now that's out of the way hopefully someone can help.


I have attempted a few emulsion jobs over the last 3 days and I'm still having some issues.

I'm using Ulano 925WR Emulsion.

Heres the go so far

Attempt #1

1 thick coat of emulsion, about 3 hrs to dry 35 second exposure to sun.

Outcome:

Sadly, I'd say this has been the best result so far, seemed to work but lettering was not sharp and I lost some of the inside of an 'e'



Attempt #2

1 single coat of emulsion, left overnight to dry 50 mins exposure with 200 watt light bulb.

Outcome:

Worked hard to scrub out but rest of emulsion started to come off also.



Attempt #3

1 single coat of emulsion, about 2 hrs drying time, 20mins with halogen light (the ones on stands you can get from bunnings for about $30).

Outcome:

Worked hard to scrub out but rest of emulsion started to come off also.


Attempt #4,

1 single coat of emulsion, about 3 hrs drying time, 35 second exposure to sun.

Outcome:

Seemed ok, but pressure blurred text and washed of some emulsion.



Before I start attempt 5...


Here is my theory, (oh the different light sources was to try some alternate methods if it’s raining etc and more for my own trial and error).

I am thinking towards the end I have not been letting my coasted screens dry long enough with the emulsion before exposing, that’s easy fixed.

My main concern is that I want the text to be strong and I need definite lines in the artwork so there is no blur, strong, sharp etc.


I have been doing the emulsion slightly blind in a dark room and that’s where I let it dry. I read on the forum a light bulb with yellow coating will be safe to use, might help me see what I'm doing too.)

What would you guys suggest?

Thankyou all for the help

Cheers
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Old October 9th, 2007 Oct 9, 2007 8:58:55 PM -   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: emulsion + exposure newbie help

Sounds like you're not exposing for long enough (hence the emulsion that should be exposed washing off). Alternatively you're exposing for too long (the unexposed emulsion shouldn't be that hard to wash off) and managing to scrub off exposed emulsion along with less exposed emulsion.
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Old October 9th, 2007 Oct 9, 2007 9:09:27 PM -   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: emulsion + exposure newbie help

thankyou,

what whould you suggest is a good exposure time for direct sunlight?

is there a link somewhere showing different times etc for diferent light sources?
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Old October 9th, 2007 Oct 9, 2007 9:14:29 PM -   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: emulsion + exposure newbie help

Quote:
Originally Posted by Six
what whould you suggest is a good exposure time for direct sunlight?
I've never done it, so I don't know. If you have a look at some of Richard Greaves' posts about exposure in the screenprinting section, he has lots of good info on how to calculate a correct exposure time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Six
is there a link somewhere showing different times etc for diferent light sources?
I've never seen one, and wouldn't trust one if I found it. There are too many variables: who manufactured the light source, how old is it, how thick is your emulsion, who manufactured that, etc. etc.
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Old October 9th, 2007 Oct 9, 2007 9:28:02 PM -   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: emulsion + exposure newbie help

okies thankyou.

I have found my exposure table and can figure out calcs.


But What category would halogen light be under, been so long since science at school.

On the back of the lamps I want to use it says 2 x 500 watts. I was thinking of killing one ie using one pointed at the scource. I assume this means 1 is still 500 watts ie not 250 by itself.

anyway, what is the bulb classified as from this list.:-

?
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Old October 9th, 2007 Oct 9, 2007 9:53:25 PM -   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: emulsion + exposure newbie help

When you say "scrub", does that mean you are trying to scrub out your emulsion after exposing?
 
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Old October 9th, 2007 Oct 9, 2007 10:14:36 PM -   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: emulsion + exposure newbie help

The spirit drums from down under called to me from Solmu - "Help, help".


Quote:
Originally Posted by Six
I have found my exposure table and can figure out calcs.

But What category would halogen light be under, been so long since science at school.
The sad news is: quartz halogen lamps are not recommended and not listed. You will notice the sun is also not listed or incandescent bulbs from your reading lamp. - or my father's old spotlight from the car.

It is your sworn duty as a screen maker to learn to make an exposure test. Spend $45 now and buy a $10 transmission 21 step gray scale and an exposure calculator from ANY emulsion manufacturer. Properly used they will last a lifetime and stop a lifetime of guessing. One exposure with a Stouffer 21 Step Gray scale where you hold a solid step 7 in the mesh, and you will know more than anyone else in the world what is going on in your shop. Looking back, would you spend $45 to have your 3 days and 3 screen back? With a gray scale, you can also tell people over the phone, what step number you are measuring with your scale and they will know what you are talking about. The scale has no friends. It will judge sun and halogen lamp the same.

More sad news, it's not good science to make one exposure, fail, and then switch to a completely different light source and start from scratch.

A stepped exposure test is just like learning to cook anything, from marshmallows to 6 course meals. You cook for a little time and then check, then cook a little more and check, then cook a little more and then check.

A slide show and a downloadable video are available at:
Support Menu of Screen Making Products

Download the direct emulsion video under the General tab.

You are also using a industrial strength water resistant emulsion that is not very fast, because to get that maximum water resistance, it has to be completely crosslinked.

The sun can be very strong, but it changes every 10 minutes and this afternoon it was cloudy.

Then you switched to a 200 watt bulb that has no promise of UV energy at all if it is incandescent.

Then you switched to a quartz halogen lamp that comes from a Mysterious place called "bunnings".

There are many variables, but exposure is easy to test. Search for "exposure test" in these forums.

You also need the ying to the yang of the exposure, the positive that is blocking the UV energy from cross linking the stencil so it dissolves with water and rinses down the drain. Yo must have a good positive. "Scrubbing? " There's not scrubbing out the image area in screen printing!

Emulsion is easy. If it rinses out of the stencil, it didn't get enough exposure to hold onto the mesh. If it doesn't wash out, something cross linked it and it holds in the mesh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Six
On the back of the lamps I want to use it says 2 x 500 watts. I was thinking of killing one ie using one pointed at the scource. I assume this means 1 is still 500 watts ie not 250 by itself.

anyway, what is the bulb classified as from this list.
I have to guess that you bought a lighting fixture that is expected to hold 2 500 watt lamps. That means 500 watts of expensive electricity and plenty of WHITE VISIBLE light coming out, but UV energy is usually undesirable because is bleaches you girlfriends drapes and burns you eyes out over time, so manufacturers coat them with UV filters or filter the light with plain glass that does a nice job of filtering UV energy.

Search the forums for 'halogen'.

Often these lamps do put out SOME UV energy, but you could expect exposure times from 13 to 25 minutes. Only a test will tell.

925WR is a great emulsion, but when you pair it with low energy lamps, you have a slow exposing emulsion.

Search the forums for "925WR" for more comments on that emulsion.

In the USA, unless you are picking up the 925WR from the distributor, you are paying a 20 UPS hazardous materials fee because of the Mild, mild acid content of the syrup diazo sensitizer. Most hobby shops use TX from the Ulano product line because it uses powdered diazo sensitizer. Ulano also makes a much faster exposing modern emulsion called QT-Discharge. Don't let the discharge name scare you away.
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Last edited by RichardGreaves; October 9th, 2007 at 10:32 PM.
 
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Old October 9th, 2007 Oct 9, 2007 11:02:33 PM -   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: emulsion + exposure newbie help

thanks guys, when I say scrub I propbably shoudl have said rub with my fingers, thats all.

richard, thankyou above and beyond.

will stick to one method to get a test first.

what type of light would you recommend that I can get away with on the cheap side for now that will do the job of something listed on the data above?

cheers again
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Old October 9th, 2007 Oct 9, 2007 11:07:29 PM -   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: emulsion + exposure newbie help

oh, also there was a tute on youtube showing another way to do a step test, will this work

http://http://youtube.com/watch?v=GP...elated&search=
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Old October 9th, 2007 Oct 9, 2007 11:43:38 PM -   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: emulsion + exposure newbie help

Quote:
Originally Posted by Six
what type of light would you recommend that I can get away with on the cheap side for now that will do the job of something listed on the data above?
Fluorescent 40 watt Unfiltered Black Light lamps, close together and close to the glass.

Put a dime on your screen the next time you expose. This will show you how a real positive blocks UV-A energy so it doesn't leak through and cross link the stencil in the image area.
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Old October 10th, 2007 Oct 10, 2007 12:53:11 AM -   #11 (permalink)
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Default Re: emulsion + exposure newbie help

thankyou , you have made this so much easier,

I have created an image i will be using to help me with a step test.

http://img36.picoodle.com/img/img36/...bm_d263be5.jpg

might come in handy for other users.

when you say black light lamps, do you mean the ones that show up glow in the dark stickers etc? could you link to a piccy so I know what im looking for. if they are what you mean, can you think of anythign cheaper to start

again thankyou.
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Old October 10th, 2007 Oct 10, 2007 5:27:43 AM -   #12 (permalink)
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Default Re: emulsion + exposure newbie help

As part of your homework, you should search these forums for "black light".

TopBulb.com - Product List


I think you can assume everyone understands and suggests the most economic solution they know, rather than assuming we know a less expensive product, but aren't going to tell you so you can figure it out yourself.
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Last edited by RichardGreaves; October 10th, 2007 at 09:54 AM.
 
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Old October 10th, 2007 Oct 10, 2007 7:41:57 AM -   #13 (permalink)
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Default Re: emulsion + exposure newbie help

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardGreaves
I think you can assume everyone understands and suggests the most economic solution they know, rather than assuming we know a less expensive product, but aren't going to tell you so you can figure it out yourself.


Well put. I'm tempted to stick that in the faq
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Old October 10th, 2007 Oct 10, 2007 3:20:03 PM -   #14 (permalink)
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Default Re: emulsion + exposure newbie help

fair enough

thankyou.

The black lights i knew of where something like $200 each.
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Old October 12th, 2007 Oct 12, 2007 6:47:46 PM -   #15 (permalink)
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Default Re: emulsion + exposure newbie help

hey guys, thanks for the info.

just bought 2 black light fluro tubes and set the timer as per above table.

Emulsion came out easier then before, (which leads me to believe I left it way too long last time).


however I couldn't see the non design washing out but my lines are chipped, ie I dont have strong lines in the artwork, specially the lettering. Does this mean I have left the exporure too short? or would you say it may be the stencil... ie I am using overhead transparencies with laser printed ink on them.

suggestions?

thanks again.
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