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aquablu · March 18th, 2007

I'm a newbie and I was wondering which is better an ink jet or a laser printer?

RichardGreaves · March 18th, 2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by aquablu


	I'm a newbie and I was wondering which is better an ink jet or a laser printer?

There is only one guaranteed laser printer opacity and Postscript halftones - The Xante ScreenWriter4 (1,995 + shipping). Postscript chip actually on the motherboard so it is very fast. You can print on $0.25 sheets of vellum texture paper, or texturized polyester film for $1.05.

No. Your HP will not give you a UV opacity of 2.0.

EPSON inkjets have a better print, but they take longer and you have to use an aftermarket RIP to increase ink deposit and shape halftones.

You can buy a 13" EPSON R1800 for $479 from Amazon and iProof PowerRIP for $495.

For a listing of EPSON inkjet printers that have produced dependable results with a RIP: EPSON Printers for making Screen Printing Positives

Wasatch makes SoftRIP
U. S. Screen makes FastRIP

If you are now saying "What about ........". These are guaranteed solutions. Everything else has to be tested. If there was a less expensive solution, I would like to know.

zaniac · March 22nd, 2007

Newbie question: So a postscript printer like the Epson 3800 Postscript Level 3 along with Illustrator CS2/Photoshop CS2 and those programs ability to control halftones (angles,lines,etc) are not all you need to print your positives for screen printing? Or is it just unknown what the outcome will be?

With the Xante Laser, do you need any RIP software or is it handled all inside the RIP chip inside the printer itself? Using the Xante, can you talk directly from Illustrator CS2 and Photoshop CS2?

Fluid · March 22nd, 2007

The Xante is postscript and will print halftones without a rip. I have an old accel-a-writer and its been running strong for 9+ years. I havent used it for film in years but it will. AutoType hase a good film - Delta laser film that works well with the xante. Im sure there is other film as well.

My concerns with laser printers and vellum is registration. With laserprinters the toner is fused using heat which can cause the vellum to shrink causing registration issues. I would go with the epson. the longer printing time isnt that long. Just make sure you use waterproof ink and film. Will save headachs in the future.

zaniac · March 22nd, 2007

Thank you for the help on the Xante with PostScript.

Regarding the Epson 3800, I have read in the past about the waterproof ink and film. Thanks for reminding me. Recent printers switched to pigment and screen printers need the other ink I believe is the answer. Now, with a setup of Illustrator CS2/Photoshop CS2, Epson 3800 with PostScript support and the right inks and film, will I need a RIP or will the tools be able to lay down halftones with the proper angles? I have been fully immersed in color separation discussions feel confident that I can at least start to get things from artwork to color sep artwork. Now, I am tackling the right hardware to get it to film.

I will be starting out much simpler than that, but I would like a setup that works with me over time. I am also making the choice between the following presses (Riley Hopkins Win/Aero, Antec or M&R Chameleon). I am leading towards the chameleon.

cycocyco · March 22nd, 2007

Get a good laserprinter with postscript built in. We bought a fantastic Ricoh Aficio AP600N that does 17 inch prints. We've had zero problems with it. Not only do you get great opacity, but in the long-run it will be cheaper for you because toner is cheaper than replacing ink on a bubble-jet. Being a postscript native printer you have full control of your halftones.

We use screen-printing specific transparencies made by Kimo (you can buy them at Screenprintcatalog.com - Changing the way screenprinters are supplied & supported. ) These are fantastic and are the nearest option to the quality of real film positives.

Fluid · March 22nd, 2007

With the epson you will need a rip in order to print halftones.

as far as your press I would highly suggest getting the M&R Chameleon. I hve one now, had 2 until I got my Gauntlet. Still going strong after 6+ years of heavy printing.

The chameleon is in my opinion by far the best manual printer out there. Also if you ever decide to upgrade to an uato all m&R palettes are interchangeable which is a huge plus. Also their micro registration is the same on the manual as is the Auto. Will help with the transition if you choose to upgrade later on.

zaniac · March 22nd, 2007

Still confused, but I think I got it.

Laser Postscript can typically handle the halftones directly due to internal rip hardware processor. Is that true?

Epson is Postscript but is limited to only handling color management and not able to effectively generate the shape and direction of the halftones. Is that correct?

I would like to bypass 3rd party RIP software in favor of using my current tools and go directly to Postscript printer, but be able to represent the halftones that these other tools provide. I know it is much harder than that and can be more art than science, but I am looking for a straightforward way of getting artwork to film with as little "magic" in the mix as possible. I like to understand why the halftones at certain settings will generate the desired results on substrate. I like the Adobe tools and want to leverage my knowledge of them wherever possible. I plan on experimenting a lot while I run some production runs because my take from the forums is... theory is something but experience is everything.

Chameleon information. Thanks, leaning more that way. Good to hear that from someone of your experience. expandable, side clamps, auto ready screens, sturdy.

JeridHill · March 22nd, 2007

FYI, Epson is selling refurbished R1800's online for $299.

zaniac · March 22nd, 2007

I use an R1800 for our sublimation side of the house. I agree it works very well for printing images.

However, if you buy refurb non-postscript epson 1800, you still have to buy between $500 (your RIP software) and $1000 (others RIP) so you still have about $1000 on average to get a refurb solution and still have to go through RIP software. If that is what I have to do, then that is that, but if I can go directly to Postscript like 3800 for $1400, I think (but dont know) that is the better solution.

I just need to know that Illustrator CS2/Photoshop CS2 and epson 3800 will be the right combo. Otherwise, it looks like a laser printer like Xante.

If anyone is using this combination for medium complexity screens, please let me know. I would be very interested in talking with you.

JeridHill · March 22nd, 2007

Yes you would purchase the Pro version of the 3800 which includes a RIP. The problem is, it won't do halftones. It is a color RIP, you would still be in the same situation you are in now. You need a RIP specifically for halftoning.

That's why I mentioned the $299 deal on epson's site. Even with a $500 RIP, that's an $800 solution. Of course you might want to look into bulk dye ink which I believe is $125 for 90ml mags and the system. But that's not necessary, it's just going to save you money in the end.

RichardGreaves · March 23rd, 2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeridHill


	Yes you would purchase the Pro version of the 3800 which includes a RIP. The problem is, it won't do halftones. It is a color RIP, you would still be in the same situation you are in now. You need a RIP specifically for halftoning. That's why I mentioned the $299 deal on epson's site. Even with a $500 RIP, that's an $800 solution.

Wasatch is going to make softRIP for the 3800, but iProof is not. I don't know what FastRIP is going to do. The 3800 has not been received very well.

Do NOT buy the Pro versions with ColorBurst. It only makes Pantone matches, no halftones, no increased deposit for opacity or calibrated halftones.

JeridHill · March 23rd, 2007

Actually, iProof has made a RIP for the 3800 but it's not the screen printing RIP. It won't do halftones. They are working on it as far as I know.

RichardGreaves · March 23rd, 2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by zaniac


	Laser Postscript can typically handle the halftones directly due to internal rip hardware processor. Is that true?

The Xante ScreenWriter4 was designed to make screen printing halftones. It has an actual Adobe Postscript chip on the motherboard and is very fast, much faster than an inkjet with software RIP. It does not have to use a software Postscript emulator. It costs $1,999 + shipping 70+ pounds.

There are no EPSON inkjet printers with Adobe Postscript built in.

You can buy a brand new 13" EPSON R1800 for $479 from Amazon (with free shipping) and iProof PowerRIP ScreenPrint for $495. That would be the $1,000 difference.

To bypass a sofware RIP and use a hardware RIP costs $1,000 more.

These are guaranteed solutions for making positives. You can by larger and faster, but that does cost more money.