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AdriaticBlue · March 13th, 2007

Over the past month, I've been on a mission to find water-based ink screenprinters, moreso in my area or within a couple of hours driving distance. I have found a handful across the US but most of the companies I have found did not openly advertise they can print with water-based inks. This is a bit confusing to me.

What is happening in my search experience is that I'm asking plastisol screenprinters if they also print with water-based inks. A few have said they actually do, only if asked, but had nothing on their site that pointed this out in advance.

I'm wondering, where's the future in water-based ink screenprinting? Is anyone here currently using the water-based ink screenprinting method for 100% of your apparel?

Are there any water-based ink screenprinters here that would like to chime in on this question?

Thanks.

Solmu · March 14th, 2007

We're at an interesting point where an extremely high proportion of highend printing (i.e. $35+ t-shirts) is done using waterbased inks or similar non-plastisol techniques. Likewise new/young premium brands (Oddica, Threadless Select, et al) are more likely to use waterbased. I'm also seeing a growing trend of consumers who talk about plastisol in much the same way as they talked about heat transfers a few years ago.

I think it's a little early to predict whether this is the beginning of a lasting trend, or just a temporary one (like so many other fashion trends), but personally I think it's the way the market is headed. On the other hand, with the advent of PVC free Plastisol... who knows?

It's coming from a lot of angles though. More women are wearing t-shirt prints, and with tight-fitting garments the softer hand is important. Waterbased creates a better looking more feminine print. Then there's the environmental angle that some come at it from. Then there's the vintage angle. Then there's the small scale production angle (home printers are more likely to be waterbased, home based businesses are becoming increasingly popular in the market place, so...). All of that comes together to make it an increasingly popular choice.

Like I said, I think it's at an interesting point, because there's more consumer demand than there is market supply. But more and more big brands are making the switch.

On the other hand in two years the bubble might have burst.

Fluid · March 14th, 2007

I see it a lot in the big brands yet I also still see way more plasticol prints than waterbased. There is no way waterbased printing will take the place of plasticol inks. The general screen priting market (Corporate, etc.) is stuck on the old skool way of printing, especially the athletic market using high opacity inks. I just dont see it happening at elast in my lifetime.

Waterbased printing is a whole nudder ball bamge and most printers start out printing plasticol. Switching to a new medium is always tough as most printers have a hard enough time getting plasticols down. To take on a new process is rare these days

RichardGreaves · March 14th, 2007

To look for water based ink printers, ask water based ink companies where they sell their ink. You don't tell us where you live except the Southeast.

Start with Nazdar SourceOne in Atlanta.

The Plast-O-Meric division of PolyOne make waterbased inks and they are based in Atlanta: 800-326-0226.

Union ink makes an air dry ink called AeroTex and represent the Pavonine line of inks. Pavonine phthalate free and PVC free ink

Call Jeff Proctor of Union Ink who lives in the Atlanta area: 866-770-4657

There will always be a market for water based inks. It has not changed in 30 years.

Tell us why you want water based inks.

In the past it was for soft hand prints, but since the 80's, plastisol inks can be made and printed so you can't feel them.

WB inks cannot be made as opaque as plastisol. I have not seen a WB white ink that is soft.

WB inks do not flash as well as plastisol because they are more than 80% water. Plastisols are 100% solids, nothing evaporates.

WB inks dry in the screen.

WB inks require that you flood the screen at the end of the print stroke. With the overall industry change from clam shell presses to complete heads that are parallel to the platens, this is no longer a problem.

WB inks should not go down the drain. They have practically the same resins and pigments as plastisol.

WB inks take lots more heat and curing time to first evaporate all that water from the ink films before they can start a race with plastisol to cure. The ink film will not go above 180 degrees if there is still water in the ink. Infra-Red panel ovens do not do this very well compared to gas fired hot air 'dryers'.

Ohhh... you wouldn't want to drink any WB ink with all the humectants, mildacides, formalahyde etc. that goes into them. I would have no fear to eat a spoonful of plastisol. I wouldn't like it, but it's better than WB components.

The reason to use WB inks (as I have for since 1980) is because in a large shop with bulk purchases and a 'Hill' homogenizer mixer you can make a gallon of ink for $5.

It really does't effect consumers very much which ink you choose, it effects the printer.

AdriaticBlue · March 14th, 2007

Hi Richard-

Thanks for the tips and resources. That's a great approach for me to inquire with the ink selling companies.

I'm located in NC (North Carolina) and here are my reasons for wanting to use water-based inks for screenprinting:

-Desire a human and animal "healthy" ink on apparel
-Desire an ink that's environmentally-friendly
-Desire an ink that allows the fabric to breathe
-Desire a complete, soft-hand feel
-Desire an ink that will allow the customer to iron the apparel (if needed)
-Don't desire an ink that will crack
-Don't desire an ink that sits on "top" of clothing
-Don't desire an ink that has an odor/chemical smell/or that will cause any respiratory issues

That about sums it up.

Thanks again!

Fluid · March 14th, 2007

Quote:


	In the past it was for soft hand prints, but since the 80's, plastisol inks can be made and printed so you can't feel them.

From the posts I see here and in other Industry forums, the lack of knowledge is the biggest reason I see people wanting waterbased prints. As you mentioned plasticol prints can be just as soft with little to no hand as waterbased prints. Also most printer just scoop inks from the bucket and start priting.

AdriaticBlue · March 14th, 2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fluid


	From the posts I see here and in other Industry forums, the lack of knowledge is the biggest reason I see people wanting waterbased prints. As you mentioned plasticol prints can be just as soft with little to no hand as waterbased prints. Also most printer just scoop inks from the bucket and start priting.

I appreciate your response also Fluid.

With that, are you implying that plastisol inks will satisfy all of my needs mentioned in the last post?

If so, help me understand what I'm missing about plastisol screenprinting so that I can move past the point of having a lack of knowledge.

Fluid · March 14th, 2007

I wasnt directing that you hand lack of knowledge just most in general. I see a lot of people asking how was this done it feels so soft and the first reply is waterbased.

I have to bolt but will try to get some stuff together tonight for you.

AdriaticBlue · March 14th, 2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fluid


	I wasnt directing that you hand lack of knowledge just most in general. I see a lot of people asking how was this done it feels so soft and the first reply is waterbased. I have to bolt but will try to get some stuff together tonight for you.

Cool, thanks a bunch!

instrumental · March 14th, 2007

that is the holy grail, and is not feasible at the moment, unless you want to take it back to ancient india and get into print/dying methods from natural plants, and all the inks that are achieving those type of things are expensive and people dont want that cost added to their production, but i did talk to willflex about some inks like that, like i said...expensive...waterbased discharge without the formaldahyde and pvc/phthalate free...supposedly...are getting closer to what you want... but people at trade shows say alot of things

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdriaticBlue


	Hi Richard- Thanks for the tips and resources. That's a great approach for me to inquire with the ink selling companies. I'm located in NC (North Carolina) and here are my reasons for wanting to use water-based inks for screenprinting: -Desire a human and animal "healthy" ink on apparel -Desire an ink that's environmentally-friendly -Desire an ink that allows the fabric to breathe -Desire a complete, soft-hand feel -Desire an ink that will allow the customer to iron the apparel (if needed) -Don't desire an ink that will crack -Don't desire an ink that sits on "top" of clothing -Don't desire an ink that has an odor/chemical smell/or that will cause any respiratory issues That about sums it up. Thanks again!

RichardGreaves · March 14th, 2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdriaticBlue


	Thanks for the tips and resources. That's a great approach for me to inquire with the ink selling companies. I'm located in NC (North Carolina) and here are my reasons for wanting to use water-based inks for screenprinting: -Desire a human and animal "healthy" ink on apparel -Desire an ink that's environmentally-friendly -Desire an ink that allows the fabric to breathe -Desire a complete, soft-hand feel -Desire an ink that will allow the customer to iron the apparel (if needed) -Don't desire an ink that will crack -Don't desire an ink that sits on "top" of clothing -Don't desire an ink that has an odor/chemical smell/or that will cause any respiratory issues

Your points ARE the classic request and are not necessarily answered with WB inks. Don't be seduced into specifying WB inks. Specify the points you made above.

WB requires nastier internal chemicals than plastisol - and they all go into the air.

Plastisol soft hand does breath and can be ironed and can't crack because if it was a film on top of the shirt, it wouldn't be soft-hand.

If ANY ink has an odor after initial washing, IT IS NOT CURED.

I read your posts on bamboo shirts this afternoon. You are in very good hands with Eric Henry at T.S. Designs.

Plan on going to the Charlotte Printwear Show June 7-9. Alas, I will not be doing my usual seminars because I will be a the FESPA show in Berlin. I will have Denise Breard substituting for me. Denise has been a screen printer for more than 20 years, is an Academy of Screen Printing Technology member, works for the SGIA part time and not one of those nasty boys that won't help you.

In Charlotte make sure to visit the Nazdar booth and Union booth with your questions.

I will be in Kings Mountain, NC on May 17-18 for the much smaller and intimate Texsource Open House. Jeff Proctor from Union ink and I will be there giving seminars. Welcome to Texsource!

instrumental · March 14th, 2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichardGreaves


	WB requires nastier internal chemicals than plastisol - and they all go into the air. Plastisol soft hand does breath and can be ironed and can't crack because if it was a film on top of the shirt, it wouldn't be soft-hand. If ANY ink has an odor after initial washing, IT IS NOT CURED.

yes...everyone is seduced into water based being eco friendly...

if you visit the union ink booth talk to joe caddlezone, he is a great help

RichardGreaves · March 14th, 2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by instrumental


	if you visit the union ink booth talk to joe caddlezone, he is a great help

Joe Catizone is the Sales Manager at Union Ink. [email address]

Solmu · March 14th, 2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fluid


	There is no way waterbased printing will take the place of plasticol inks. The general screen priting market (Corporate, etc.) is stuck on the old skool way of printing, especially the athletic market using high opacity inks. I just dont see it happening at elast in my lifetime.

I don't really see it happening in those markets either (and those markets are going to make up the majority of clients for most printers). But the fashion tee, and even the web based tee, I could see turning around (well, the fashion tee already has for now). I think plastisol will start to be seen as a sign of an athletic or corporate tee, so people in other fields will want to distance themselves from that.

Solmu · March 14th, 2007

re: eco friendly...

The argument being presented here is one of WB ink vs. plastisol ink... I thought the reason WB was considered better for the environment wasn't the ink itself, but because it cuts down on the solvents required to clean up after yourself.

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