I am currently looking into a printer for film positives and I am considering the epson 4880. I have a few concerns. I know that this printer is able to do both film positives and dye sub transfer papers as well as the ability to also use chromablast inks. (the tri-brid sytem). As opposed to the blackmax 4880 which is ONLY for film positives. I understand the advantage of the Blackmax sytem (ie, it is faster and probably more opaque as it has all black cartidges) I am looking for input as to whether having this tri sytem is worth it. Clearly, if you have 3 different printers (one for each app), then you don't run the risk of all 3 failing at the same time. Which leads me to my question/concern: How reliable are these printers? Every several months it seems a new printer comes out and the latest model is discontinued. Next thing you know, people are selling their printers (trying to) for fractions of fractions of the original cost. How soon til this happens with the 4880? At nearly $4000, I don't want to make that mistake. Although, the idea of one printer that versatile is attractive. Also, can you just buy the epson 4880 printer "as is" and set it up yourself to be able to print these 3 ways? Because I notice the price difference between the normal 4880 and the Blackmax sytem and Tr-Brid sytem is quite a lot. Is this because of additional hardware in the printer, different drivers, software,etc? Any info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, everyone.
First off, the 48X0 printer is very reliable and in my opinion is probably one of the best printers made by Epson. I prefer the 4800 printer because it reads the ink volume, but that is my preference. As far when the next 17" wide Epson printer is coming, I am not sure. Maybe someone else knows for sure.
As for the difference between an all black ink film positive setup versus a hybrid, the difference in speed is not something that most garment decorators find noticeable unless you are printing over 20 films a day. Just because there are 8 channels of black ink does not mean that it is 8 times faster. The reality is that the speed is based on several factors (i.e. the ink and # of ink channels, the film and the resolution you need to print out to get the correct density) that will have an affect on the speed of the printer. Epson has the ultimate control over speed as the print head can only move so fast as Epson allows it. There are hundreds (if not thousands) of screen printers out there using just one channel of ink to print film positives.
One of the key differences in the price between an all black film positive printer and a hybrid printer is the difference in the ink prices. The film positive ink sold by most of the screen print distributors has UV blocking inhibitors in it that provide for better positives. The average cost per a 110 ML cartridge is $50.00 to $60.00 and a Liter of ink is below $150.00. Sublimation ink is very expensive (approximately 2.5 to 3 times the cost of the film positive ink) and will increase the price of the total package. The ChromaBlast ink is also approximately 2 times the cost of film positive ink. So you really need to do your homework on the complete package (i.e. the printer you choose, which RIP software, which ink(s) to load, which fillm positive to print on,...) to understand what your upfront cost is and what your variable cost will be in the future. You do have multiple options if you want to run a hybrid printer setup.
One thing you should know about all piezo printers is they require that ink is spit out of all ink channels when you print. This is a part of the Epson firmware and can't be changed by any RIP or driver. This means whether you are running a hybrid printer or an all black ink setup, you are going to lose ink. When running a hybrid printer, if you are printing more film positives than sublimation transfers...you will be losing the expensive dye sub ink. Of course, if you have an 8-channel dye sub printer, you will lose twice the amount of expensive dye sub ink every time you print. Just something that you should be aware of. There are plenty of hybrid printers that are running with 1 or more channels with film positive ink and the owners are running cleaning fluid instead of sublimation ink till they feel they are ready to print dye sub transfers.
Hope this answers most of your questions and provides you better foundation for making a decision. Feel free to ask additional questions if you have time.
Yes. Very helpful. Thanks, Mark. I was not aware that all channels printed regardless of what you were printing. That would be foolish to run if you were mainly doing film positives. Is it possible to just swap out cartidges as needed as you mentioned. Just put in cleaner or something else until ready for the sub dye or chromablast inks? And if so, how complicated would this be, how time consuming? Is switching back and forth, if possible, worth the time and/or effort? Thanks for your help. I really appreciate it.
A couple of things might need to be clarified. There is a difference between the ink being printed (i.e. going down on the film or paper) and it being spit during an maintenance procedure (i.e. goes down into the maintenance station and into the waste tank). The amount of ink being spit is minor. In fact, no one really noticed this when they were running an 8-channel setup because they just thought they were using the ink. It only became noticeable when hybrid printers were launched three years ago and someone was primarily using just one side of ink / printer.
A hybrid printer is still a standard Epson printer. The only thing that is different is we use two different types of ink and a special RIP / driver to tell the printer to pull ink only from specific channels. Some of the hybrid systems require you to use specific inks and others offer more variety. But that does not require you to load all the ink channels at the same time. For example, I know companies that run one of the following ink setups:
- 4-channels of dye sub ink - they want to save money on having to buy 8 dye sub ink cartridges and they will lose less ink when the printer does its firmware maintenance procedures.
- 4-channels of dye sub ink, 1 channel of film positives - they want to do film positives and sublimation transfers, but they don't want to do heat transfers or pay for the other cartridges.
- 4-channels of dye sub ink, 4-channels of ChromaBlast ink - this could be the tri-hybrid you spoke about (which requires the use of a RIP) or just a standard hybrid (can use a RIP or a special driver)
- 4-channels of dye sub ink, 4-channels of a Multi-Purpose Ink (does light and dark heat transfers and has UV inhibitors in the black ink for film positives) - allows them to print dye sub, heat transfers and film positives using a single RIP application.
* Please Note: You have to have some type of ink or fluid running through the printer lines at all times or you will do damage to your print head. If you don't load all the ink channels up with dye sub, heat transfer or film positive ink... you will need to put either the Epson OEM ink cartridges or get cleaning fluid (either in sealed cartridges or refillable cartridges). I recommend selling the Epson OEM cartridges on eBay and getting cleaning fluid because it is cheaper than almost any type of ink.
As far as swapping inks or cartridges out, I don't recommend this. It takes a large amount of ink to get the ink lines, dampers and print heads ready to print. Thus, if you keep switching cartridges in and out, you will lose that ink and will have to replace it when you want to start printing with the ink you switched out. This is why I recommend to people that just want to do film positives right now (but want to expand to doing dye sub in a couple of months) to just load the film positive ink and use cleaning fluid in the other lines. Then load the expensive dye sub ink after you are all setup and running with your film production and can dedicate the appropriate amount of time to promoting and selling dye sub.
You should also do some searches on this forum about the ChromaBlast ink. There are a lot of people that have encountered clogging problems if you don't use it regularly. Thus, you need to make sure that you use all ink channels you have ChromaBlast ink loaded into (i.e. more than just the black channel you will use to print film positives). Use the knowledge and experiences others have posted here during your research.
Hope this clarifies a couple of things and answers your questions.
You sent me a PM with some questions you wanted me to answer. Unfortunately, your mailbox is full and will not allow the reply message to go through. Please delete some messages and let me know when I can send the reply. Thanks,
You sent me a PM with some questions you wanted me to answer. Unfortunately, your mailbox is full and will not allow the reply message to go through. Please delete some messages and let me know when I can send the reply. Thanks,
Mark
Thanks again for your help. I've deleted messages. It should be ok to send me a message now. Thanks.
4880? which printer? 
Re: 4880? which printer? 
