Discuss the different types of equipment needed for screen printing. Topics include manual screen printing presses, automatic presses, dryers, folding machines, starter kits and high end machines.
Hey, I'm looking to buy screen printing equipment with a $3500 I received from my school. I've looked at several different combination from Silkscreensupplies.com, Caps, Logos and a few others. To save money in little ways I'm going to make my own screens and use Poly-tec film (I think thats what its called) instead of emulsion. The film I've been able to use without a dark room, as long as it obviously stored dark and you expose it in a reasonable time period (I've actually only used emulsion noce and thought it was an uneeded hassle). But, obvioulsy I'm not an expert, so I'm sure it has it's upsides. Anyhow, I'm looking for equipment, a press, dryer and exposure unit for 3500, tight budget I know. I was wondering if anyone one had suggestions input experience with any of those supply stores or other cost effective suppliers. Do you think I should I get a conveyor or micro-registration? or should I get a vacuum unit? Have you ever had to deal with size issues of the exposure unit? Would a 20x24 exposure unit really differ from a 25 x 36? The units in the past I've been used I've never been limited, so I don't know how much it would affect the product. Thanks for any help/input.
Buy used, and stay away from the brands you have listed. They're all crap. You should be able to get a usable used professional press without micros for $1000 or less, a usable used press with micros for $2000 or maybe a little less but you'll really have to look, a used small dryer for $1000 or so, a used flash for $300 or less, and make your own exposure unit. The used press won't be top of the line, but you should be able to get either an old very good press, or a newer used entry level press from a company that makes top of the line presses, like Hopkins International, Odyssey (Workhorse), Hix, etc.
If you insist on buying the new, cheap junk you're looking at now because your budget is small, make sure you order a "kick me" sign to put on the back of your shirt. ;-) I guarantee you'll be posting here later on saying what a mistake you made.
Last edited by tpitman; December 20th, 2008 at 05:48 PM.
When I first started I think I got all of my equipment for around $1800. I bought a package and it came with screens, exposure unit, flash dryer, ink, emulsion, block out, test squares, all required chemicals, fabric adhesive, and instructional video. This was exactly what I needed as a beginner. I am a bit more seasoned now and guess what...I am still using the same set up. Never thought about the other "Brand Name" units as this was perfect to get me started and even though my orders have picked up this set up still serves it's purpose. The only new equipment I have bought since I first purchased my starter equipment is a heat press, and I am now looking into a conveyor dryer.
I will see if I can find the link to the company I purchased from because they also sell larger packages with the conveyor included.
I am here writing a bunch of posts about the Espon 3000 and saw this thread - $3500 is way more than we started out with and we've done alright. We actually started with no money, only the money we both get from our day-jobs, and put in a little bit here and there. I should also mention we both understand how to cut and put wood together and that has helped a lot. We also have access to a table saw and a miter saw. I am very proud about how much we have done with so little. A brief list - some of these ideas may help you:
We build our own frames from cedar wood, using a table saw. We stretch our own screens using a screen tool (little hand held roller, used for putting screens into doors), which presses the screen bead into an 1/8th inch line also cut with the table saw. Frames go together with frame clamps, glue, and a biscuit joiner (if available). Make sure wood isn't warped.
We use 140 mesh screen purchased from Chicago Silk Screen Supply, which is also where we buy our inks and squeegees. But you can order these things as well.
We coat the screens in a room we've sealed from light and use darkroom lights for illumination. We expose using an exposure stand I rigged up from a 500w halogen work light and PVC (I got the idea from a post on this forum somewhere), with a piece of 16x20 glass pressed on top to keep positive flat while exposing (taped the edges of glass with masking tape for handling).
For positive printing I can't reccommend the Epson 3000 enough - it is what I use for positive printing and you don't need a RIP. Picked up one for $300 from craiglist, but expect to pay a little more or less, depending on various things.
For the press we built a great one created by Michael Phipps. Check out his website, printingplans.com, to get the free plans or see this thread. Cost about $250-$300 in materials and we have an amazing press. Use this press- I can't recommend it enough.
Of course, having a partner helps with all of this, and if you aren't sure about working wood that will make things a bit more difficult, but even so this would be a great opportunity to learn and save some cash at the same time.
Ah, shirts. For shirts I use Alpha Shirts. They are reasonably priced and don't require a minimum order. Works out for me too, because I am close to one of their warehouses and can pick up orders and avoid shipping costs.
I do all the design work. If you don't design yourself this can be an expensive thing to outsource.
For curing we use an oven in our kitchen. This is not ideal but works for now. We need to pick up a flash dryer, although I was thinking about making one from a small pizza oven we have lying around here somewhere...
This reply could use some pictures. Yes, I'll take some later and add to the post.
Well, anyway, I'm just trying to say that $3500 is way more than you need to get going, but if you were to use it for anything I'd say put it into a convener dryer and flash dryer because those things are hard to duplicate cheaply. Ink isn't really that expensive nor is emulsion or screen material. What really costs you are frames, screen-stretching, film positive acquisition, exposure setups, flash and conveyor dryers, and designing. If you can figure out ways to do those yourself, you will save a lot of money.
Last edited by edwardo_machino; December 21st, 2008 at 01:11 PM.
Reason: update
I would have to disagree about building your own frames. The cost of prestretched wood or aluminum frames is so low that making your own and using the old cord-in-groove method of stretching is not worth the time, unless you're stranded on an island somewhere and need to print yourself a t-shirt to look good when the rescue ship shows up. Will it work? Sure, but the tension will be so low that it just makes printing anything decent harder. Have you ever put a tension meter on the frames you've stretched? Are the tensions from frame to frame anywhere close?
There are some things that you can build yourself that will approach professionally-made equipment. An exposure unit is one. A screen drying box with a fan and filter is another. A washout sink is another. If you've got no money, you can make a one-color press with a pair of jiffy clamps and a piece of particle board (I have one that I do yard signs with). You can make a press like the one shown in the link, or for a little less money and effort, a similar one as shown in the book "How to Print T-Shirts for Fun and Profit". When I took serigraphy in college, we made our own screen frames and stretched them by hand, stapling the mesh to the bottom. It worked, but that's about all you can say.
The thread starter has enough money to actually buy some fairly decent stuff to get started. His time would be best spent going to an ISS show, looking at real screenprinting equipment so he knows what to look for in used, buying something used but professional, and learning how to print instead of learning how to cut wood and figure out workarounds on rudimentary, handmade (aka, "ghetto") equipment. Unless, of course, he IS stranded on that island and he sees the smoke from the rescue ship on the horizon.
I'm not trying to slam what you've done. I'm famously cheap, and I've tried all the ways to beat the system, but if you're serious about printing, there's nothing noble about seeing how little you can possibly spend only to become discouraged when you can't figure out why things don't work. I would guess that most people who get into screenprinting, even with good equipment, quit fairly early on when they find out it isn't as easy as it looks. The people I bought my current press from petered out after 4 months, because "it was hot working in their garage, and they were tired from their day job". Thusly, I got a $4500 press that was 4 months old for $3000.
The best piece of advice to anyone who's jonesing to start a t-shirt printing business is to take your time and find out what separates the good stuff from the crap. It'll save you a boatload of money, time and frustration in the long haul.
These are all good ideas, has anyone here worked with Hopkins presses? I would like to be able to have at least a 4 color press so I can I could do simple designs on dark colors. The registration hold on multiple colors is why I don't want to make my own. I have worked with hand-made screens before, as long as you re-stretch them after every couple prints I never had a problem. Pre-made screens do hold their stretch better/longer though so if I'm looking to scrape together that extra little bit, I'm definitely going to make my own. As for the exposure unit, how do you do half tones and what not on a home made unit?
I looked at the plans for the press and some of the shirts the site said were printed off the press, it looks like they get as tight of registration as I would need. I have some experience with wood work, although I am by no means an expert. About how many hours do you think it took you to make the press? the exposure unit? How do you run your timing on the halogen, trial and error at the beginning? Also does glass type matter at all, or just as long as light can run through it?
My first press was an older Hopkins International 6/4 with no micros. You can still get parts for these presses from Hopkins BWM in Modesto, CA. I paid $700 for it and sold it for $800 after about a year. The only thing wrong with the press was the speed table had a kind of notchy spot in the bearing, but it never affected performance. Maybe it was a rusty bearing. I replaced it with a brand new CAPS press for the micros. The press itself was okay, but the micros sucked. The press I have now is an 8/4 Vastex 2000HD.
Had I known more about presses and printing, I could've gotten more mileage out of the old Hopkins than I did.
As far as Hopkins presses go, there are two manufacturers on the market: Hopkins BWM, which makes the original Hopkins International style presses (which just about every other press is based on), and Riley Hopkins, who started Hopkins International, but went out of business, selling the rights to Hopkins BWM and restarted with his new company, Riley Hopkins Promotions (I think). The only thing about the Riley Hopkins presses are that he has come up with a joystick registration system that is unique, and which some like and others don't. It requires both hands to use, which I don't care for, but I've read good reviews from others who do, and who have more experience than me. It's an acquired taste, apparently.
I would have to disagree about building your own frames. The cost of prestretched wood or aluminum frames is so low that making your own and using the old cord-in-groove method of stretching is not worth the time, unless you're stranded on an island somewhere and need to print yourself a t-shirt to look good when the rescue ship shows up. Will it work? Sure, but the tension will be so low that it just makes printing anything decent harder. Have you ever put a tension meter on the frames you've stretched? Are the tensions from frame to frame anywhere close?
Seems I've neglected this thread and missed some action!
tpitman: I do not possess a tension meter, but I must disagree with your assessment of hand-stretched tension. The supply house I use, Chicago Silk Screen, stretches most of their work with a hydraulic stretcher on aluminum frames, using glue. My screens are not as tight but damn close - definitely good enough for print runs.
As dukeball22 points out occasionally tension may be lost, in which case the screens would need to be stretched again to regain some tension.
None of this is meant to imply the superiority of a hand built frame - on the contrary, eventually I would love to upgrade all my stuff to aluminum roller frames. But when you are on a budget, why pay $20 for an aluminum frame when you have a truckload of free, rot-resistant cedar lying outside? Not everyone will come into this kind of lumber, but it can be bought cheaply enough and you can end up saving some serious money at the beginning.
At this point I should also mention that my business model is a bit different than most of the guys I've seen in the forums - I do not take jobs (at least, I haven't yet). I am in it to sell shirts with my designs on them, for about $20 a shirt or so. I guess these would be called "novelty" shirts. So I am not dealing with deadlines or angry customers. This allows me a bit more leeway with regard to my choices in equipment.
Also, the press - if you are on a budget build the one planned out by Michael Phipps and Dan Mitchel. Four color, one to four (if you build them) station press with tight registration. No need to spend more than $200 or so on this amazing press. $1000? Man, that could buy emulsion, mesh, ink, wood, Epson ink, transparencies, etc. When you truly are broke, for whatever reason (we all have our own) sometimes the cheap way is the only way.
But there are costs unseen involved in all this DIY money saving scheming - you are usually paying up, in different ways, by reading, understanding, laboring and stressing so much more than someone who just bought the stuff. And occasionally spending the day depressed and useless because your ideas aren't working and frustration begins its work.
Phipps' press is cheap but was very labor intensive to build, truly frustrating at times, dealing with problems in construction. Running the biscuit joiner on piece after piece of wood, glueing it, clamping, making sure it is square. Getting the cord in the grove over and over makes your wrist feel like falling off. But I don't ever think it is a bad time to learn about wood - this can help you down the road.
But then again someone may advise against an Epson 3000 for film positive printing and recommend a commercial image-setter or outsourcing. And it is not that this advice would be poor if the person taking it had a few grand to devote to the ridiculous prices for outsourced positives or an image setter - but I have achieved more than satisfactory results for $300 with the Epson.
It is my belief that if one goes through these steps, a better understanding of the whole process will be acquired - truly this is the case for myself. If I had $3500 of startup money my story may have played out differently.
Prebuilt screens will stay tensioned longer, but if you've never printed on a loose wooden one you may have problems identifying the problems loose tension can cause, then when it crops up somewhere, perhaps on a shoddily stretched screen made by someone else, you may wonder why things are screwing up and have to look harder for the solution.
A journey, all of it. It is true that building your own equipment is a gamble, but even if it doesn't work, or doesn't work as well as its commercial counterpart, so what? Then you'll just have to buy it anyway and in the end you'll come out with an understanding of why the commercial version works and yours doesn't (or doesn't as well), and all you would have lost is time, which isn't of much concern to those who are just starting out.
The thread starter did have a bit of money - $3500 is definitely enough to buy some serious equipment and get going. I never had that much cash at one time in my whole life so I guess the concept of so much capital is strange for me to think about.
I looked at the plans for the press and some of the shirts the site said were printed off the press, it looks like they get as tight of registration as I would need. I have some experience with wood work, although I am by no means an expert. About how many hours do you think it took you to make the press? the exposure unit? How do you run your timing on the halogen, trial and error at the beginning? Also does glass type matter at all, or just as long as light can run through it?
I don't know if you're still around but if so I will try to answer these questions.
Michael Phipps' press registration is tight if you take the time to shim it properly. Hours? I don't know, a few days to build the whole thing, hours and hours getting it adjusted (off-contact distance, spring tension, tightness if the wood that holds the arm in place and still for good registration).
The exposure unit is made from PVC so the time was negligible, perhaps an hour or two cutting and gluing and attaching the halogen to the top of it with hose clamps.
The exposure timing is determined by estimating a good ballpark median figure, then running in increments over a test positive. I go in 30-second increments. With Ulano 925WR emulsion I get a great exposure in 8 1/2 minutes.
Glass, as far as I know, doesn't need much special consideration as long as you can see through it. Glass exists that filters out UV rays, such as the stuff that you must remove from a worklight if you intend to use it as an exposure light. This glass will be clearly marked though and is usually thicker than glass you can by for framing and such at a hardware store, as I have used.
Equipment on a small Budget 
