I am looking to start a T-Shirt decorating and promotional item home based business and am looking for versatile equipment. I came across the NEOFLEX digital textile and solvent printer; does anyone have experience with this machine? Does this machine do a good job at both applications? Or is it best to purchase a dedicated machine for each application?
I am looking to start a T-Shirt decorating and promotional item home based business and am looking for versatile equipment. I came across the NEOFLEX digital textile and solvent printer; does anyone have experience with this machine? Does this machine do a good job at both applications? Or is it best to purchase a dedicated machine for each application?
Thank god finally I have one inquiry on this forum. I will be extra careful for not to promote NeoFlex. Explain only.
Yes we do have customers who owns multi printers.
One base with extra printers.
As same as hat.
Rainy day you wear rain hat. Sunny day you wear Straw hat. But all are on your head.
We provide extra printers Solvent and textile (CYMK +CYMK and CYMK + 4 whites) on same base (head). All are dedicated for its own job.
When you need solvent printer (hat), just put solvent printer on the base (head).
When you need Textile printer(hat), just put on Textile printer on the base (head).
When you need to print Dark shirts, Just put on CYMK+4W printer(hat) on top of base(head).
I hope I am clear to your question.
Let's say, When your set up is CYMK+CYMK and you have dark shirts print order.
1. Clean all the ink line (2hours for pros)
2. Change Dampers (1hour)
3. Clean out your printhead (1 hour)
4. Change ink cartridges (1/2 hour)
If you do all correctly as our tech 4.5 hours later you will start to print.
So much work. Major reason why people hate to print dark shirts.Then why people do not have set up as CYMK+4White? Because when you print light shirts it will be much slower than CYMK+CYMK.
NeoFlex change printer time is less than 2 minutes. Video is on my web site.
I know what you mean, you are saying that when vehicle can fly and sail and run on highway, this vehicle is horrible on air, water and Highway.
But NeoFlex is totally changing character in two minutes. Airplane, Ship and Car only.
Solvent printer is not same as Textile printer little more into it which is dealing with solvent is not same as dealing with waterbase textile ink. Viscosity, ink drops, details, static, heat, distanse --etc.
Did I clear for your question? If not (usually) please call me anytime.
NeoFlex is same as multi printer in One without complicate any function.
You wear any hat (any printer) you want to depends on weather (customer order). Split second to change hat.
I personally would/will buy a dedicated machine for any purpose I need one for. I'm not knocking these peoples machines but the only place I could see a benifit to this type of machine would be if I had to have a street presence in a high rent area where I could only afford enough space to need an all in one machine. It sounds like a good idea but do you realy want to change heads every day to make a print check to avoid blockages. Also, does the solvent variation provide the heat needed to make these inks work properly?
I personally would/will buy a dedicated machine for any purpose I need one for. I'm not knocking these peoples machines but the only place I could see a benifit to this type of machine would be if I had to have a street presence in a high rent area where I could only afford enough space to need an all in one machine. It sounds like a good idea but do you realy want to change heads every day to make a print check to avoid blockages. Also, does the solvent variation provide the heat needed to make these inks work properly?
Good points. Change head takes two minutes.= not too much work for meet the demand. Depends on how your order come in. We have been selling NeoFlex for months. Not One head blockage was reported to us yet. I am sure it is not lucky. We did many thing for the printer. One of main thing is Epson 4880 and Chemical. Solvent printer is clog free. Textile: If you maintain as exist cutomer, you will never call me for this issue.
Head and Printer is not same.
Head is part. Printer is whole thing. please see the video. I am the first one who introduce this concept in real life. They all talk because this is right way but hard to deliver. Took me for while.
Heat: depends on media.
Good point Terry, but I wonder if would be a good machine for just handling garment printing? I could always add the solvent printer at a later date ($6,000 additional). The printer according to the literature is capable of printing an area of 42”L by 17”W for about $19,000. I need to find out (hands on if possible) if it is a good machine compared to the others out there in regards to quality of image, production print speed and relibility.
Good point Terry, but I wonder if would be a good machine for just handling garment printing? I could always add the solvent printer at a later date ($6,000 additional). The printer according to the literature is capable of printing an area of 42”L by 17”W for about $19,000. I need to find out (hands on if possible) if it is a good machine compared to the others out there in regards to quality of image, production print speed and relibility.
Speed: Do not believe any salesman about speed. Just go to www.epson.com. find the which engine they use. Salesman may all lie but this web site will not. Mine is Epson 4880.
17x42 means = three to four shirts at a time which is faster than Kornit.($100K plus). I cannot promote here and I do not want to promote here. Please study more.
Call us for discuss about your hand on exprience. Do all your job on my expenses in Philly. If you want to save money on purchase wait for show special or Demo machine. Not just to us to all the DTG makers.
This sounds good in theory, but I know machines that reconfigure the way printing occurs. They don't print in the same manner the Epson prints, so speed cannot be calculated according to Epson's specs. That being said, I have seen many claims on print speeds from just about every single company that sells/distributes or manufactures direct to garment printers. In the beginning, most of them claimed print speeds but they did not account for the time of loading the shirt to the finished product. These print speeds where grossly exaggerated. Go to YouTube and find actual live printing of various machines from start to finish. This will give you the most accurate count.
This sounds good in theory, but I know machines that reconfigure the way printing occurs. They don't print in the same manner the Epson prints, Jerid, I don't know how deep your knowledge on Epson you do have but I want to say this to you for your FYI. Whoever use Epson engine Except Epson themself cannot change the speed. just think it is a car! Car speed is by the engine and Mfg only can control. RPM. HP
so speed cannot be calculated according to Epson's specs. That being said, I have seen many claims on print speeds from just about every single company that sells/distributes or manufactures direct to garment printers. I am little disappointment on your address. Print speed will effects by DPI and Image area only. Low DPI means faster but not crispy. High DPI (dot per inch) will slow down the speed but much better image. I hope you will study little more from here. If you can adjust speed, it is same as you own Epson company and make billion $.
In the beginning, most of them claimed print speeds but they did not account for the time of loading the shirt to the finished product. That is why printer move like NeoFlex is better than Shirts moves.(in my opinion) While printer prints you can load and unload. Not just waiting until printing finish.
These print speeds where grossly exaggerated. That is why www.epson.com is the answer. Desk top model vs. Proffessianl printer model?
Go to YouTube and find actual live printing of various machines from start to finish. This will give you the most accurate count.
Movie? did you ever see Matrix? They can do all kind of things on movie. Like aviod bullets? No close up? flying? I hope you are kidding. But anyway thanks to following up NeoFlex posting. Beers are on me Cheeeeeers! I hope I can pass Rodney test with this post. Am I OK Rodney? I wish English is my primary language
I personally would/will buy a dedicated machine for any purpose I need one for. I'm not knocking these peoples machines but the only place I could see a benifit to this type of machine would be if I had to have a street presence in a high rent area where I could only afford enough space to need an all in one machine. It sounds like a good idea but do you realy want to change heads every day to make a print check to avoid blockages. Also, does the solvent variation provide the heat needed to make these inks work properly?
Thank you for your post Terry. I remember you had made this point on an earlier thread. The beauty of solvent printing is that the ink that is used is not a pigment ink, it is a dye ink. One of the advantages of dye inks is that they not have the inherent separation charateristics that pigment inks have. Therefore, you will not have to run your machine daily in order to keep the ink from clogging up your system. What I always suggest to customers is to keep the textile printer (pigment inks) on the mainframe and put the solvent printer aside when finished for the day. This way the auto clean cycles will keep the textile ink circulating. The auto clean cycles can be set in hourly increments. The changeover from textile to solvent, or vice versa, takes less than 2 minutes. The printer is not heavy and can be easily lifted in and out.
In addition, we've also created a system where you can daisy chain the two printers together and actually have the auto clean cycles apply to both printers if you anticipate prolonged periods of non-printing. We find this especially useful for the customers who have purchased a Dual CMYK printer setup (faster printing on lights) and the White Ink (dark shirt printing) option together.
You're right when you say that it would be best if the customer bought 2 machines at once. However, that would be a large investment at once for many customers. What the NeoFlex offers is the ability for the customer to test the water first before jumping in with 2 feet. The machine is able to grow with your market and your business. At anytime you are able to upgrade and purchase an additional base or printer.
Well, I'm not going to go into a full in depth discussion of my knowledge or someone else's of Epson, but I will tell you what I know. And this is why, when looking at Epson's website isn't always the best answer. Watching a live video is better. The Matrix spends millions of dollars for their special effects, but a simple camcorder with a live stopwatch can easily show true speeds. If someone wants to see real speeds, then ignore digital timers on screen and place a real stopwatch next to the printer to show no doctoring to the video was done.
Here's the deal, the 48xx series of printers use the exact same printheads as the R1800. The print head axis on the R1800 is much faster for various reasons. A smaller format printer doesn't need to accept all of the additional papers etc as a professional printer. So everything that goes into the print head carriage, etc is much lighter on an R1800 than the 48xx series. This enables the printhead to move much faster on a smaller format, so the R1800 can lay down more dots faster. If anyone doesn't believe that, then if someone has an R1800 and a 48xx series printer, place them side by side and send identical jobs with identical settings to each printer and you will see, the R1800 series prints much faster.
Not only that but the Y axis step is much faster on the smaller format printers. The professional series has to pull the larger rolls of paper in without jerking them because of size and weight. So the smoother pulling of the material is created but it is a slower process. A smaller format printer will hold a 13" roll and not as thick either, so it doesn't matter how fast it pulls the material in. This gives the ability to allow for faster feeding. That being said, a printer that moves is good for many reasons, but printing on shirts, a platen that is lighter than a 75 pound printer, moves much quicker. So load time and unload time move very fast. I have a Tjet red here that I am cleaning up for a customer of mine. When I load and unload the platen it moves extremely fast, faster than I've ever seen a machine where the printer moves.
Now the internals, have you ever noticed the 48xx series spit cycle? It's constantly spitting. It will move over to the capping station and spit. The R1800 series of printers doesn't do that. It will spit to the left of the machine about every 13 moves of the head. This keeps the printer moving faster. The professional printer needs to be more precise so there are additional steps taken to keep it going. The smaller format printers don't have the additional features and aren't necessary, especially printing on tshirts.
One last thing, I'm not talking about making the printer print faster, I'm talking about what happens with the printer before and after the print. This is where with the right engineering, you can create a faster printer with a smaller format than the larger.
The true test of time, I would encourage a 12x12 print on black to be printed and video taped with a physical timer. Why read something Epson has to say, when the machines are the final word?? Take a 12x12 design, print it, video tape it and send it to various companies with various printers. All shirts printed on black with zoomed on graphic still on press with no video cuts or editing to see quality. That is how an end user makes an informed decision.
What a cool idea, to have a standard 12X12 image print on a dark t-shirt and the process timed, videotaped and posted to help folks new to the industry (like me) make a more informed decision on their hardware purchase. It would be nice this forum could conduct such a challenge and allow the manufactures to step up to the plate to support their claims. I would be very impressed, and more likely to purchase a garment printer from a manufacture who would be willing to go head-to-head with others using this benchmark. Which hardware manufacture will be the first to take this challenge? That’s the company I want to buy my machine from.
Good morning all!!
just got out from staff meeting.
Get interesting! One thing we all do is stay cool and exchange opinion not fight! Nobody is right or wrong. We all try to say something benefit for our self. Human nature. I am/will doing my best here not to exceed boundary.
Does your Mod 1 is base on 1800? If so which is discontinued by Epson long long time ago. Follow 1800 are, 2200, 2400 all are discontinued. Now 2880 is most recent model on A3 size which most DTG Epson modifier's favorite. If you use 2880 sounds much better but still all are desk tops (Mark @ Belquettes favorite word). Also you have to break utility which is Modifier's biggest dilemma. When or about the time code break, Epson have newer model out. Keeping up with Epson's desk top changes is Modifier's biggest nightmare. I can tell who is suffering with this issue but I will not repeat here. There are web sites who sell utility for Epson. After break in and put on market but they also suffers with Epson desk top changing trend. I visit them all the time also.
Professional model: They do not change often as Desk top model.(4800 was on market for 5 years, while 1290 --- 1800, 2200,2400 was changed every year. You may have part supply by now but how long? If you can supply 1290 parts I will be very shock (first Mastermind model). Why old car having problems with parts supply? New car: do not need to worry for long time.
Epson 4880: $2000
Desk tops are/was $395-$695
Why? If as you said 1800 is better and faster than 4880 then Epson must be crazy company. Better model for cheap price? Do not add up in my book. It may works on others.
Which printer will last longer? if no answer go to Epson web site which all modifiers/Sellers do not like the idea. Because $395 become $15000? It is way way too much in my book.
Why image area is very important?
Because you can print many shirts at one pass and you can load and unload while printer prints.
Also meet the demand of big image printing fashion. Jerid will it speed up production?
To the buyer note
1. Registration (especially on dark or 2nd 3rd shirts)
2. Electronic errors (board, wire pinch, poor/cheap parts)
3. Part supply chain. When your machine mfgs does not have enough parts u r in deep trouble. I still have 100 4800 printheads. 200 4880. Call your choice mfg and order few printhead and others. If they said out of stock: trouble start.
4. life of your investment. 4 cyl vs. 8 cyl
5. cheap built as home made look is home made. Except the home made food is not good idea. This was where Mastermind was good at when they have many close out Epsons. All sold out now. New Mastermind seller is Texmac. Very good looking machine, works pretty good but not as good as mine(joke) and good respectable company.
6. User friendly RIP. Since DTG users are mainly beginner. It should be easy easy.
Color profile too.
7. Ink supply (sealed cartridge + refill cart'). In stock? Price?
8. When and if machine can print many shirts at one pass, make sure all the shirts are printed same with your own eye.
9. Check the price. You can bargaining big time these days. It will be pretty hard to do as a middle man. Often middle man raise price too much.
10. After you narrow the printer choice. Pay a visit to Shows and Mfg. My house is open anytime and will show you how we are making in real time at Philly. No secret! We have more than 100 in stock.
11. Ask mfg, if my machine hiccups what will you do? Me? send new one immediately without you touching like Epson.
Thank you for reading my blabla. I hope it helps your hunting.
As Brian (www.screenprintinguniversity.com) said "Future screen printing is screen less" Smart and fair guy.
Peter, I was addressing large and small format printers, but since you bring up the mod1, then yes, I will respond accordingly....
Does your Mod 1 is base on 1800? If so which is discontinued by Epson long long time ago. Follow 1800 are, 2200, 2400 all are discontinued.
The Mod 1 does use the R1800 printer. There are currently a very good supply of R1800 still available. The good thing about the Mod1 series is you can retrofit other printers to it once that time comes. As you clearly remember, the FlexiJet is based on a 4800 and when the 4800 was discontinued, the FlexiJet still lived on using 4800's. When the time comes, the FlexiJet will be converted over to the 4880 as well, just as the Blazer series of printers was. That's the good thing about the Mod1, is when that happens, it's only a matter of changing the module and not the printer itself.
Now 2880 is most recent model on A3 size which most DTG Epson modifier's favorite. If you use 2880 sounds much better but still all are desk tops (Mark @ Belquettes favorite word). Also you have to break utility which is Modifier's biggest dilemma. When or about the time code break, Epson have newer model out. Keeping up with Epson's desk top changes is Modifier's biggest nightmare. I can tell who is suffering with this issue but I will not repeat here. There are web sites who sell utility for Epson. After break in and put on market but they also suffers with Epson desk top changing trend. I visit them all the time also. Professional model: They do not change often as Desk top model.(4800 was on market for 5 years, while 1290 --- 1800, 2200,2400 was changed every year. You may have part supply by now but how long? If you can supply 1290 parts I will be very shock (first Mastermind model). Why old car having problems with parts supply? New car: do not need to worry for long time.
Same answer as above, it's not a problem.... as an FYI, fear doesn't dissuade sales when a printer is created right....
Epson 4880: $2000
Desk tops are/was $395-$695
Why? If as you said 1800 is better and faster than 4880 then Epson must be crazy company. Better model for cheap price? Do not add up in my book. It may works on others.
Again, the 4880 has many features that a photographer would want over the R1800. So many extras are included into the 4880 that is not in the R1800. But the FACT is, it's the same head. How many of the features on the 4880 do you use when printing tshirts that can't be used on the R1800? It's like buying a car with GPS to drive around your neighborhood. It's a nice feature, but overkill and definitely not necessary.
Which printer will last longer? if no answer go to Epson web site which all modifiers/Sellers do not like the idea. Because $395 become $15000? It is way way too much in my book.
That's funny, $395 becomes $15,000, but a $2000 printer becomes $20,000. That's a $5,000 swing with a $1,600 difference. You KNOW just as well as anyone else, that price can't be determined by the original price of the printer. The Mod1 has features that NO OTHER DTG PRINTER HAS ON THE MARKET TODAY. In fact, flush your system with cleaning fluid and you waste about $50 in ink. The Mod1 wastes about $1 when flushing the system. These are features that are not available on anything in the market and yet the printer is still priced with everyone else. Sure the NeoFlex is currently selling for $15 or $16,000, whatever your special is, but that's a limited time. But it also doesn't have half the features the Mod1 has for user ease. I can change a module out in seconds if someone really wanted to use solvent inks and the Mod2 can have both garment and solvent inks without ever changing anything out.
And as a side note, our STANDARD warranty is 2 years.... I guess yours will now be 2 possibly 3?
Why image area is very important?
Because you can print many shirts at one pass and you can load and unload while printer prints.
Also meet the demand of big image printing fashion. Jerid will it speed up production?
The mod1 prints so fast, you don't need to worry about loading and unloading the machine. 1 additional platen is all that is needed. It can be loaded by hand while the printer is printing and when it's done, you pick up the platen and place the other one in it's place in a matter of about 2 seconds. Again, print a 12"x12" image on black and yours will take probably about 6 minutes, the mod1 probably about 2 1/2 minutes.
As for what can be printed, check out the rotary feature that has no alteration to the mod1. Pictures attached.
***My personal disclosure****
This is not an advertisement.... This is debunking a competitors point of view of the machine we rep. I never sell by trying to discredit competition and I appreciate when others show us the same respect. When it doesn't happen in that manner, simple clarification is all that is needed.....
NEOFLEX or dedicated machine? 
