I met with a sales rep from Israel and assured me that the Kornit 931DS (dual-pallet) can print 3-times faster than the single-pallet 932NDS, due to 4 white printheads, dual loading, pretreatment speed and a serie of internal improvements, sort of speak).
Summarizing, he claimed and sweared in front of me that it can print 400-500 t-shirts per 8-hour shift, "no problem".
Does anybody own the 931DS machine? What do the 932NDS owners think about this statement?
I'm VERY afraid about the RELIABILITY of this machine. Since is so hell expensive, we'll only be able to afford one... for the time being (so no backups). And I really don't want to ruin my health figuring out how to solve all the issues it seems it regularly has (constant BANDINGS, high missprint ratios, little and not so little issues on a daily basis)... and specially, any downtime over one day, 2 at the VERY most.
Buying 2 932NDS maybe is not the answer either, since the production would be of both combined, 300 at a maximum?? We'd need more. Also you double your maintenance and your changes of having issues on both machines :-)
Summarizing, he claimed and sweared in front of me that it can print 400-500 t-shirts per 8-hour shift, "no problem".
I have not seen this machine in person. But I am a numbers guy. If you break these numbers down, you are printing between 50 to 62 shirts an hour. The only chance this is correct is if you are printing the same job because you have the time of the file being ripped. The size of the graphic is also going to make a difference. You have somewhere around 10 seconds to load a garment and 5 seconds to unload and this is pretty agressive numbers over an 8-hour work day. This gives you a total of 45 seconds to do the entire printing process per a shirt.
For dark garments, the previous version of the machine required the platen to go into the machine, lay down the pretreatment, feed the platen back into the printer, lay down the white ink, feed the platen back into the printer and then print the color layer. They might have made some changes to this process with their new improvements. It makes it hard to believe these numbers if it is the same process.
The best way to test this is to take 60 shirts to Kornit and offer to pay for the ink that is used and see if they can really do it. You could even cut it down to 15 minutes and see what they are able to do and multiply it by four. If they are able to hit these numbers, then that it is great and let everyone know. It is just really hard to believe the numbers being quoted from a lot of the dtg manufacturers if you are looking at full size graphics with a good coverage.
Let us know if you can get them to do a test with you present.
The 931DS machine is the dual palet one. While you have one shirt printed, you can load the second one. The machine prints non-stop.
Regarding the artwork rip, I was told that the newer versions have included a powerful software that you don't actually need to rip the artwork; you just open your TIFF file directly onto the machine, queue it and you are done.
I couldn't see it myself, but this is what they say. Sounds too nice :-)
Regarding the artwork rip, I was told that the newer versions have included a powerful software that you don't actually need to rip the artwork; you just open your TIFF file directly onto the machine, queue it and you are done.
I couldn't see it myself, but this is what they say. Sounds too nice :-)
Either way the artwork would still need to be 'RIPPED' throguh the program. What they might have been referring to is having the artwork all queued up and ripped/printed automatically, thats what the sales agent told me recently.
I was very much considering a Kornit this year. But with the new DTG inks coming out into the market for Epson based printers I'm going to hold of the decision until a bit later.
There are a few new ink sets that are already out, coming out shortly or in testing. I know of about 4 new ink sets.
I think Dupont ink from some places retails for around $300-$350/Litre? While some of the new inks can be had for around $215/L. That's getting pretty close to the $160/L for Kornit. Although the Kornit probably does lay down less ink the ink price advantage is getting less and less compared to Epson machines.
Wow four hundred shirts a day!!! You can print that many an hour if you use our transfers. The Kornit is the best digital direct to garment printer and it still cannot compete from a cost and quality standpoint with a great custom made transfers.
Wow four hundred shirts a day!!! You can print that many an hour if you use our transfers. The Kornit is the best digital direct to garment printer and it still cannot compete from a cost and quality standpoint with a great custom made transfers.
Larry Levine
Artbrands
Except transfer printers wouldn't be able to compete in any way in the short run market. Imagine if you only do 1-off prints, or if you did runs of 12 or 24 full color shirts? Transfers wouldn't work. Additionally, the cost per transfer is most likely a lot more than the DTG ink used in the Kornit. Over the course of a year, if you print 100,000 items, how much would you save if you digitally printed them instead of transfers?
As for quality, that often depends on the artwork. If the image has smooth, multi-tonal gradients, DTG printing will look much nicer than plastisol transfers.
I think Dupont ink from some places retails for around $300-$350/Litre? While some of the new inks can be had for around $215/L. That's getting pretty close to the $160/L for Kornit. Although the Kornit probably does lay down less ink the ink price advantage is getting less and less compared to Epson machines.
Although there have been some very positive changes in ink prices recently, it will still be a long way before the small format DTG ink is able to compete with the Kornit inks. In fact, I am sad to say that it probably won't happen within the next year or more, at the very least. IF it did, I would be the FIRST person in line to buy a bunch of reliable small format DTG printers. I would have much higher production and equipment redundancy with 10 4800 based machines than 1 Kornit machine.
Right now, the cost of production (for my particular business model) is way too high with any other ink currently available. Also, the yield amount is considerably different between the assorted inks.
All that aside, I cannot WAIT to see an inexpensive white ink option that WORKS consistently and is comparable in price to the Kornit inks - I will be a very happy person...
I heard Anajet ink is getting closer and closer in price to the Kornit's ;-D
Reading your posts (and other's) I really came to the conclusion that running a single Kornit is way too risky for a business model that needs a quick and RELIABLE shipping date (just 1-3 days after ordering)
Justin, may I ask this: Next to the Kornit, what is the best (next best) DTG out there? Something that you would consider buying if the Kornit is not available.
Is this machine over $100K? Have you bothered trying to figure out how many shirts you'd have to produce to make that back? What if you don't meet your production goals?
__________________
Hard labor kills, make t-shirts instead.
I heard Anajet ink is getting closer and closer in price to the Kornit's ;-D
Reading your posts (and other's) I really came to the conclusion that running a single Kornit is way too risky for a business model that needs a quick and RELIABLE shipping date (just 1-3 days after ordering)
You still have to look at both "Ink Yield" AND "Ink Waste" figures before you can make a comparison. You can't simply look at the purchase price of the ink. I was helping sell some Anajets at a show in Florida a few months back. I spent a great deal of time printing on them, and we could NOT, in any way, get the price of dark garments down to a reasonable level. And we were SELLING them. I had Fred, the RIP guru, run his RIP with the ink counter on it when we were printing (his RIP gets much better results than the standard Anajet RIP) and I was seeing numbers between $4-$9 for white ink alone. This did not factor in waste, pretreatment or CMYK inks (although the RIP CAN track the CMYK costs as well, we were only interested in white ink costs). So even if you can get the cost of white ink down to "x" per liter, you are still looking at a much higher pretreatment cost, higher volume of pretreatment to get comparable results, and the CMYK layer. This is without calculating how much ink the Epson printers use for spitting, capping, flushing, etc (I recall the figure being anywhere between 30-50% extra for waste, not counting bad shirts).
Now, all this is not to say that small format printers are not good for printing on darks... Quite the contrary, I have seen some amazing prints done by some very skilled operators. But, there is a reason than the majority of all small format DTG printers are not running white ink, and the Kornit IS. Is it easy on either machine? No. Is it much more cost effective on one vs. the other? Of course. Most importantly, if you are going to get into this market, you need to have a deep understanding of the true costs associated with doing business, not just a rough estimate and an optimistic spirit. Anything short of this and you are only hurting yourself in the long run.
Kornit 931DS production capability 
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