Discuss the various aspects of heat press technology. Transfer paper, inks, plastisol transfers, vinyl cutters, printers, commercial usage, durability, suppliers, etc.
I would never have believed the difference between and iron and heat press. I tried to listen and as much as I wanted to believe ...
Well now you have the convert! I LOVE my heat press. I got the JP-12 yesterday, fired it up and ran some small test prints to check and play with the timer and the heat.
Got what I believe to be the opt settings and printed the design that I had so much trouble with. I was jumping up and down and grinning from hear to hear when it came out of the press with NO cracks. WOW!!!!
Ok on to time and temp versus Durabrite inks. The best transfer was at what the directions for the paper had said...however, I still do not like the yellowing. I have tried to compensate in the original pic and it just doesnt make a tremendous difference.
So for the fun of it, I tried the Vivera inks from my hp on the same paper and followed the direction for temp and time. Guys, the difference is unbelievable! Finally it comes closer to what the print actually looks like. And again no cracks and no splits. I did have to drop the dpi from my normal print 300 dpi down to 200 dpi (oh like I am really upset about that...less ink, no bleed, smaller file size and shorter render time...somebody shoot me!)
Durabilty...I put epson shirts thru their first wash and color is holding, although I did notice that if I stretch the shirt there is some cracking. (I mean really stretch the shirt) Under normal wear, I dont think you are going to see it. I did notice that it was worse in certain areas of the transfer...which now I wondering if the platen has cold spots in it. I researched Geo Knights stuff but they dont say much about the lower end JP series. Their higher end they do talk about the windings and so forth in the platen. Oh well, pay for what you get ....get what you pay.
NOW I can truly appreciate what you guys were telling about heat presses both in the working at all plus the quality and size. I am already making my list of things I want on the next one...
Nevertheless, I am one happy kid this Christmas! I love it!
As for the Vivera inks...I have two HP shirts washing now for the first time. I will be adding those with the epson Durabrite to the wash every week to see what happerns.
I am guessing since you guys have been right about everything else, (elf bows his head and rubs his toes in the dirt) that I will probably be switching inks before long.
In the meantime, I am going to enjoy this. This is almost better than....well maybe not that. (teeeeheeee)
LOL - Glad to see you have found out the true wonders of a heat press.. pretty amazing stuff huh =) Keep us posted on the Vivera inks.. I use Durabrite and so far.. even with no changing of the color.. just printing straight from setting it up.. everything has been coming out well .. Havent had the problem with yellowing etc as you mentioned..
Isn't it so much fun playing with it all when you first get everything =) We've been having a blast.. if only I could master the straightening techinque.. hehe I'm working on it =) Every shirt comes out better then the last though!!
I have this set up in my kitchen...my computer room is so overloaded with equipment right now that the 13 amp heat press would probably blow the circuit every time it kicked on. (chuckle) Talk about your funnies. *G*
But I dont care, this is just a blast.
talk to ya soon
John
PS:
The yellowing is not around the outside edge its in the actual pic, which just baffles me. On paper the epson seems to be same in quality and color as HP. But put it on the Transfer Jet paper and it just does not come out that way at all. John
It sounds like colour shift from the heat to me, but I don't really know since transfers aren't my thing (if it is that it's normally fixed by adjusting the colour profiles on your printer; something like Yellow -15, Cyan & Magenta +5).
I'm sure you'll get some advice soon. Glad to hear you're having a ball.
I think your right and I think its paper and Epson OEM inks. Both the HP and the Epson allows you to reset the color AT the printer. overiding your graphics program. (which is another issue altogether and nightmare)
I tried filtering the pic down with the graphics program reseting the printer to default and it works to some degree...but doesnt get rid of all of it.
The heat is the catalyst that changes the yellow to overcast everything, but somehow I dont believe its the heat as much as it could be the paper or combination of that ink on that paper.
Keep in mind printing on plain paper the results between the two printers are almost identical and no over cast is present. Even the printing on the transfer paper, again the results are almost the same...certainly not what happens after you apply the heat.
I remember something about this in one of the threads here but for the life of me, cant find it.
You'll hear more from me. This color issue is drivin me right up the wall. I ready to throw durabrite inks in the garbage. I have played with the sliders on this C88 till I am black and blue in the face and green on the t shirt. (chuckle) I missin something, but I will kiss your foot if I can figure out what. I using adobe 1998 profile both on the monitor and on the printer. The real frustrating thing is that the "print" on the transfer paper looks perfect. But once you apply ANY heat to the silly thing it turns a putrid green on all the image itself. Not the border, just the image. The white areas or near white areas of the image are just flooded with the green tint. Sucks! Really sucks!
Ok on to time and temp versus Durabrite inks. The best transfer was at what the directions for the paper had said...however, I still do not like the yellowing. I have tried to compensate in the original pic and it just doesnt make a tremendous difference.
As Solmu said, this is easily fixed by adjusting your color profiles. -15 Yellow, +5 Cyan, and +5 Magenta is a good place to start; some people adjust it a lott more past that (I remember hearing one person was using -20 Yellow for example).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Elf
So for the fun of it, I tried the Vivera inks from my hp on the same paper and followed the direction for temp and time. Guys, the difference is unbelievable! Finally it comes closer to what the print actually looks like. And again no cracks and no splits.
I vaguely recall something about only SOME of the Vivera inks being pigmented, and either the colors or the black (forget which) still being dye-based. If this is true, you may get some bleeding; I'd suggest trying a bleed test to make sure this won't be a problem. Soak a t-shirt and fold it over itself and let it sit for a while.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TaylorTees
I use Durabrite and so far.. even with no changing of the color.. just printing straight from setting it up.. everything has been coming out well .. Havent had the problem with yellowing etc as you mentioned..
I didn't get it at first either. It depends a lot on what you'r printing. Try printing some various photographs or very thin black lines; these are the two areas we noticed the yellowing effect the most before we changed our color profiles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Elf
Both the HP and the Epson allows you to reset the color AT the printer. overiding your graphics program. (which is another issue altogether and nightmare)
How is it a nightmare? It only takes a few extra clicks when printing; not even 30 seconds. You can save a setting with the color profile settings so you can load it quickly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Elf
The heat is the catalyst that changes the yellow to overcast everything, but somehow I dont believe its the heat as much as it could be the paper or combination of that ink on that paper.
I don't think the paper matters much in this; mostly just the heat and ink.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Elf
I using adobe 1998 profile both on the monitor and on the printer. The real frustrating thing is that the "print" on the transfer paper looks perfect. But once you apply ANY heat to the silly thing it turns a putrid green on all the image itself. Not the border, just the image. The white areas or near white areas of the image are just flooded with the green tint. Sucks! Really sucks!
Now that sounds really bizarre. Are you saying that the areas that aren't getting printed on are still color shifting? If this is the case, and it only happens with the Durabrites, make sure the background of the image you are printing is actually pure white (as opposed to light gray); it may be printing where it shouldn't be printing at all.
Try adjusting the color profiles before printing (print properties, then advanced) as I explained above and see if that helps. It should do the trick; it did for me, though it sounds like my color shifting was a lot less extreme than yours =)
Hi Twinge,
All good advice...and have tried all of it. (smile) Durabrite inks and whatever I am doing is just does not want to be compatible right now and thats fine. I continue to work on it. I have Spyder2 Suite coming. What I found out about my color shifts were not durabrite or the printers fault. Loose nut behind the wheel most likely.
See, I just bought a new LCD Samsung 204b monitor. Never calibrated the monitor. When I set up adobe PS I used their Adobe Gama for a color mangement. Boy were my eyes opened in a hurry. All the pics were like reallly dark, I mean almost black! So the Epson was trying to compensate, hence the color shifts. This could have an impact on me not being able to color correct for the green at the printer. Havent tried that one yet. Hopefully when the Spyder gets here I can finally take everything out for a spin and see whats happening at the heat press. Buying the suite is also going to give their Printfix Plus software and be able to write some printer profiles without the scanner of course, but oh well. It will more than I had to start with. With just using adobe gamma I turned a 180 degrees in direction, I just could not believe what I was seeing. I ran some test prints thru the epson using Photoshop. Turned off ICM at the printer. Then reversed the process letting epson use its color profile. Both pics now almost identical or as good as I can get by eye. Big difference! At this point I going to have to say that it was my fault for not calibrating the new monitor. OOPS!
The spyder should be here by monday or tuesday next week. This season is gone for me, but valentines is coming and thats what I shooting for now. I still have some more testing to see what the limits of the Vivera inks are going to be. The color inks are dyes and the black is a pigment or at least that's my understanding too.
So far the fading and bleeding are the holding the line on the test shirts. They are going thru there third wash today. The cracking is where I expected to see it...at the lower end of heat and time, attempting to adjust for the green thingy at the press.
On the other thing of color correcting at the printer. I hear what your saying...but in my mind that was forcing a proof for each new graphic and because of where the green is coming from that forces the proof at the press...not at the printer. I shuddered all over thinking about that one. In my mind, I couldnt see a clear reference point and endless testing going over and under.
I dont doubt the numbers you gave me are good starting points...but I was having problem way back up the line. Hopefully that wont be the case this time next week
Thanks bunches, Twinge. Will post up after I get the Spyder and get everything set up again.
I vaguely recall something about only SOME of the Vivera inks being pigmented, and either the colors or the black (forget which) still being dye-based.
Initial reports were that Vivera was a new product, and it was going to be pigment based. Then we heard the black had been pigment based for a while already. Then we heard the new product was out and it was pigment based. Then we heard that it wasn't actually pigment based, it was dye (and variously that the black either was or wasn't pigment).
In short, I gave up. It's clear that as far as the general public goes people disagree on what the product is made of, so unless you hear it straight from HP I wouldn't trust it.
Hi Lewis,
I researched all this out myself weeks ago when I bought the epson. The problem is epson, hp, cannon...no body wants to get down to specifics. They all want denibility or inclusion into whatever the other group is misleading the public at the time. If it wasnt frustrating when you trying to make a decesion and get all the oranges and apples separated, it would laughable.
With that in mind, after 3 washes:
Both inks are showing signs of fading, durabrite and vivera. However, the durabrite inks are by far holding thier original color by leaps and bounds. If I had to visualize in the form of percentages. I would have to say that 30% of the ink has faded on Vivera inks and about 10% on the durabrite inks. The black ink is showing less signs of fade on the Vivera inks...but that reallllly becomes mute if you have any color in the graphic at all.
All this backs up what you guys have said at the start, that the Durabrite would hold better than Vivera inks. The funny thing, I never doubted it. But I was having so much trouble with epson vs the hp at the heat press at the time, when it was all said and done I had these two Vivera ink shirts and 2 durabrite shirts and decided to run the wash test so as not to be a total loss on my part.
What I reallllly wish I could do is test the other inks without having to buy the CIS or bulk ink system. So far, I have been unable to locate cartridges filled with a pigment based ink that will fit the C88. They have them for the c60, but not the C88.
IMHO, that sucks! It would appear that I am stuck buying $400 worth of ink to find out that it is crappy ink...at least for t-shirt iron on heat transfers. Even you guys dont all agree on which is the best...some of you like and use Armur, some Magic Mix and still others are holding on to Durabrite OEM inks...etc etc. I am guessing that it really doesnt matter as long as it's pigment based and then in that group its just personal choice.
Then you hear the war stories of paper jams, clogged printheads, paper flaking, bleeding...etc. warranties that are cancelled by the manufacture...yadda yadda yadda.
And still with all that, the best and most accurate, consistent information that is coming from any source that I have found yet, is coming from this forum! This forum had better be self sustaining! These manufactures need to be paying for the continued existence of this forum. It is most definitely in their best interests.
Last edited by Dark Elf; December 16th, 2006 at 08:04 AM.
Reason: spelling
I received the Spyder2 Suite and last week and proceeded to calibrate my LCD screen. While their software and hardware are easy and straight forward to use, I found that I didnt really know my monitor as well as I thought I did and Samsung does not want to be too forthcoming with information. Bless their little hearts! But after learning more than I ever wanted to know about LCD screens, I did manage to create a profile for my monitor. Boy was that an eye opener!
The next problem was creating a printer profile using Printfix Plus software only. After having to download new targets in the updated version from Colorvision and then all the learning that takes place about color profiles and Color Mangement Software (trust me. Things do go bump in the nite...chuckle) I finally got me little brain wrapped around this stuff and have a "working" knowledge of how to achieve what I wanted.
I soon found out that my graphics program simply was not going to give me what I wanted and am going, kicking and screaming, learning Adobe Photoshop 7.
At this point, most of what I had printed up is way out of gamut and will have to be reworked and some I may have to go back and re-create entirely. Whew! But the experience has been worth while to say the least...frustrating beyond belief is another phrase I would use also.
So what does this have to do with heat press and t-shirts? Well for many of you nothing. You buy or have made your graphics and you rely on the designer to do all the above. For me, graphics is my thing. For all my stuff, I will create myself. Besides the kudos for creating your own stuff, the other reason is that you will come away with a much more detailed understanding of what is happening at the graphic level when you press that next t-shirt...that cant hurt and IMOP only help.
I still have to write the profiles for the transfer paper or at least check to make sure the current profile is doing what its supposed to be doing. As soon as that is done, I will be back at the heat press lickety split
As for all the problems with color shifts...I believe at this point, that was all operator error from the very beginning.
As from the test using vivera inks vs durabrite inks...yup...the vivera inks fade like a bad movie trailer. After about 5 or 6 washes, they are no where near the competitor the pigment inks. Durabite inks do fade...but not at anything close to the rate of what the dye inks or specifically vivera inks. Bleeding was not a problem for any of the shirts that I ran in this test. Just never happened.
Everyone have great holidays and we will talk to ya all real soon!
Glad you got it (mostly) figured out, Dark Elf. Good information there with the compartive tests. Are the blacks in the Vivera inks still lasting well after several washes? That may indicate strongly that the theory that only the black is pigmented is correct.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Elf
On the other thing of color correcting at the printer. I hear what your saying...but in my mind that was forcing a proof for each new graphic and because of where the green is coming from that forces the proof at the press...not at the printer. I shuddered all over thinking about that one. In my mind, I couldnt see a clear reference point and endless testing going over and under.
I suppose this depends on how precise of a result you're looking for. From the sounds of it - more than myself, though I'm still fairly picky. Basically, most of what we printed looked fine, but photos looked completely yellowed-out (and thin black lines had a yellow shift all around them). After we changed the profiles to the recommended -15/5/5, things looked how they were supposed to; it didn't really require a lot of testing, hehe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Elf
It would appear that I am stuck buying $400 worth of ink to find out that it is crappy ink...at least for t-shirt iron on heat transfers. Even you guys dont all agree on which is the best...some of you like and use Armur, some Magic Mix and still others are holding on to Durabrite OEM inks...etc etc. I am guessing that it really doesnt matter as long as it's pigment based and then in that group its just personal choice.
Pigmented probably is the primary factor. I've actually heard it both ways comparing Magic Mix to Durabrite -- some say the difference is significant and obvious, others say it's not that big of a deal. Bulk inks will save you money in the long run (assuming they fit your quality standards), but do incure the upfront cost, obviously.
I know you can get a full set of Magic Mix for about $160 though, and a CIS for anywhere between $50 and $250. TLM does also sell pre-filled carts of Magic Mix; I assume she offers carts that will fit a C88, but I'm not certain. If so, this would give you your test cheaper and lets you skip the CIS for now.
A newbie sharing his tale II 
Re: A newbie sharing his tale II 
