Need to Register?

Moo Spot Prints · December 5th, 2006

I just finished reading Lucy's thread on 'Why Cold Peel' and I'm a little confused. I've established a few things (correct me if I'm mistaken):

1. The conventional wisdom (on this board as well as that of several of the popular transfer companies) is that hot peel is for light color fabrics, cold is for dark.

2. Lucy says that you can do 95% of the stuff out there with hot peels.

3. A lot of people have had trouble with hot peels. Many of these people have gone to cold peel because they feel it's easier to transfer.

4. There are very few members here that actually print transfers.

5. Lucy swears by GLUE. Helps stretch without cracking.

6. Some swear by Adhesive Crystals. They claim it makes the transfers come off the paper better.

I'm getting ready to start sampling transfers for my shirts and I've been doing a lot of reading about this subject (blame the engineer in me to need to know EVERYTHING before getting started) and it strikes me that I haven't come across a single post that talks about the specific types of inks and additives used in their transfers. For sure, there is a lot of talk when it comes to inkjet transfers, but not plastisol. Is this because most of you don't know? Don't care? Don't want to divulge secrets? Don't think it matters? Have I not been searching hard enough? Is this because the majority of members here are not printers?

I'm thinking that the ink is really the thing I should be looking at. If I can understand what I need to produce the effect I want I'm in pretty good shape when it comes to talking to the printers. Trouble is, there are a lot out there. A frightening amount actually!

Here's the kicker: The specs on the inks don't say if the ink is for hot vs cold transfers. A lot of them say they can be used for both. Arrgh! Here's an example. (I'm assuming that this is a common ink that a lot of shops use).

So let's get to some questions:

Q1. If I were to use this ink, what forces me to designate a transfer I make a hot vs cold peel? Curing? Additives? Paper?

Q2. What is this GLUE that Lucy keeps harping on about? I found this in the lawson line. Sounds like the same kind of stuff. Is it? Maybe it's something more like this?

Q3. Are adhesive crystals used primarily in cold transfers? I can't imagine that molten glue will stick to much.

Q4. (This is really my ultimate goal). I am searching for an ink/ink mixture to print transfers with some specific characteristics. Any suggestions on what lines/brands to look into?

Here's what I'm looking for:

* Thin/light/soft hand. Shirts will be used by sweaty people and I don't want the transfer to stick.

* Not glossy.

* Good adherence/coverage to textured 100% poly fabric with some stretch to it. Waffle/mesh weave.

* Primarily white material with single color logos (two colors at most). Maybe some white on navy material in the future.

That's it for now. More questions to follow I'm sure!

T-BOT · December 6th, 2006

hi jose, im glad you are taking an interest in this topic.

Custom means just that, "Custom".
I have concluded that the main reason why transfer companies make them as cold is because its safe. In other words, perfect for a client that orders 24 custom transfers only.

Now when doing a job for 1,000,000 transfers, in order to get the job based on quality and price points, cold peel will not do it. Custom everything, starting from the art, to what they will be applied on. It may need 3 passes of white with 2 passes of addictives at 4% each or whatever it takes for the custom job to be done at the highest quality and lowest price points.

badalou · December 6th, 2006

Quote:


	I haven't come across a single post that talks about the specific types of inks and additives used in their transfers.

I think your confused. Plastisol is not an ink. We have discussed inks and the one ink that is used the most is pigment inks. Inkjet printers have either pigment or dye. Screen printers use plastisol paint. It is not an ink. We who do use printers for hot peel do not use additives. Additives are used in screen printing plastisol transfers.

Solmu · December 6th, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by badalou


	Plastisol is not an ink.

Yes it is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by badalou


	Screen printers use plastisol paint.

No they do not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by badalou


	It is not an ink.

Yes it is.

MotoskinGraphix · December 6th, 2006

Lou...you are confusing everyone...fold that hand now.

T-BOT · December 6th, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moo Spot Prints


	Here's what I'm looking for: * Thin/light/soft hand. Shirts will be used by sweaty people and I don't want the transfer to stick. * Not glossy. * Good adherence/coverage to textured 100% poly fabric with some stretch to it. Waffle/mesh weave. * Primarily white material with single color logos (two colors at most). Maybe some white on navy material in the future!

any reputable transfer maker can make exactly what you need (when the art and process permits). The problem i find in most cases is that the peeps behind the actual design end may not be educated enough to design for the garment decoration industry, knits etc.... and send us paper post card art for Off-Set type printing and expect it to be the same a screen printing on knits.

what quantity are you looking to make ? for small runs with elaborate variables, its more cost effective for your art dep. to create such designs for t-shirts etc. sometimes one little small change can save you a lot of money.

badalou · December 6th, 2006

Quote:


	Lou...you are confusing everyone...fold that hand now.

You are right. I meant that it was not an ink for your printer. It is a ink used by screen printers. That was a bluff. Now I raise.. I answered that question in the wee hours of the morning. Now I am fully awake.. and have coffee..

T-BOT · December 6th, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by badalou


	You are right. I meant that it was not an ink for your printer. It is a ink used by screen printers. That was a bluff. Now I raise.. I answered that question in the wee hours of the morning. Now I am fully awake.. and have coffee..

Lou, you could post something in Chinese and I would still know what you are talking about. No worries, it happens to the best of us.

badalou · December 6th, 2006

dá xiè (For Lucy)

Moo Spot Prints · December 6th, 2006

We're going to have to let him slide on that one. One more outburst like that however and you WILL be beaten by the confusion police Lou!

I am talking strictly plastisol. I only mentioned inkjets because that is the ONLY kind of ink I hear mentioned here.

I'm just trying to figure it all out. It's pretty obvious that there are two worlds here and the languages don't jive up. Where do all the transfer printers hang out?

I still want to know what (chemically or process-wise) make a transfer hot or cold!

T-BOT · December 6th, 2006

hi jose,

here is an article that provides a basic understanding of how various transfer types are made etc. enjoy: http://www.unionink.com/articles/transfer.html

Moo Spot Prints · December 6th, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by T-BOT


	any reputable transfer maker can make exactly what you need (when the art and process permits). The problem i find in most cases is that the peeps behind the actual design end may not be educated enough to design for the garment decoration industry

This peep is trying to learn so at least I have a clue as to what goes on behind the scenes. I *really* don't want to set up a screenprinting shop. Really! That's why I'm looking into transfers.

I really hope I'm not hitting one of those 'industry' things where everybody gets all super-secretive about their knowledge and processes. I deal with that stuff every day in my plainclothes job and I HATE IT!

T-BOT · December 6th, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moo Spot Prints


	This peep is trying to learn so at least I have a clue as to what goes on behind the scenes. I really don't want to set up a screenprinting shop. Really! That's why I'm looking into transfers. I really hope I'm not hitting one of those 'industry' things where everybody gets all super-secretive about their knowledge and processes. I deal with that stuff every day in my plainclothes job and I HATE IT!

hummm,
let me explain my first post.

Custom means just that: "Custom".

every professional transfer job involves being able to produce whatever the client's CUSTOM needs are. So, there is not a manual for this. It all depends on what the CUSTOM requirements are and the transfer maker ability to deliver such. This could even involve having specific CUSTOM inks made for you, ONLY.

If you are looking for a quick Masters Degree on making transfers its not going to happen because ALL Custom jobs are different and you learn as you go.

I honestly do not know a better way to explain it.

Moo Spot Prints · December 6th, 2006

Thanks. This is a good start. I'll read it more closely tonight after work but I think I just realized why hot splits don't work as well on darks -- Not all of the ink gets on the fabric. Duh!

Moo Spot Prints · December 6th, 2006

Heh. No, I'm not looking to add a McDegree to my resume. I'm just trying to break down the problem into bite-size pieces. Maybe I'm not asking the right questions... that's pretty common.

Need to Register?

Resources

T-Shirt Sites

Hot vs Cold Peel