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charles7 · July 17th, 2008

cracking, fading, milford, jetpro soft paper, peeling .. help !!!!!!!!!!

need i say more
I bought heat press
i ordered jetpro transfer soft paper from milford
I was very excited
i made a couple of t-shirts (25seconds on heat press)
I sell t-shirt
still excited
Customers bring back shirts
t-shirts fade (major)and crack after one wash
ohh they are not excited

help
has anyone encountered this ...
did i do something wrong

R1Lover · July 18th, 2008

Please don't listen to the pigment story, there is no truth to it, I and many others use dye ink without any issues at all. I think most people on here read it once and think it's set in stone. There is nothing worse then passing off bad information to someone else. DYE INKS WORK JUST FINE.

As for your issues, I also use JPSS and have not had this issue at all.

I'm curious to see of someone else has?

norwalktee · July 18th, 2008

Troubleshoot this by increasing the pressure and temp with several transfers and wash the samples. It could be an issue with your ink if you still have a problem. Dye inks work fine with some papers. I've read some posts that JPSS is one of them. I used a 1280 (with dye ink) for years and had no major problems with the papers I primarily used, but had a black that would bleed on other papers. Pigment inks are the way to go for the professional who wants greater durability for their prints. If I'm wrong, then my own comparison tests are wrong. I only going by what I've seen and not what others say.

charles7 · July 18th, 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by R1Lover


	Please don't listen to the pigment story, there is no truth to it, I and many others use dye ink without any issues at all. I think most people on here read it once and think it's set in stone. There is nothing worse then passing off bad information to someone else. DYE INKS WORK JUST FINE. As for your issues, I also use JPSS and have not had this issue at all. I'm curious to see of someone else has?

so you think it might be my ink ...
because everyone here recommends epson c88
that is what i bought
i'll try another printer

R1Lover · July 18th, 2008

Someone removed there post so it makes it looks like I was talking directly to your first post.. sorry about that.

Someone mentioned it was probably due to dye ink, I stated the above. There have been many people on this site stating that dye ink is not any good for transfers when in fact I and others have had great success with it. While there may be some combinations that don't work, I do know I use dye ink with JPSS and it works fine.

I would guess to say the above poster is correct in saying that it's a combination of heat temp and pressing times that may be causing your issue.

I'm using 375-380 for 30 seconds IIRC. I would guess that the cracking might be too much heat for too long of time maybe???

charles7 · July 18th, 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by norwalktee


	Troubleshoot this by increasing the pressure and temp with several transfers and wash the samples. .

Thanks for the reply

my heat is at 350
should i still increase it ...
i'll try increasing the pressure

badalou · July 18th, 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by R1Lover


	Please don't listen to the pigment story, there is no truth to it, I and many others use dye ink without any issues at all. I think most people on here read it once and think it's set in stone. There is nothing worse then passing off bad information to someone else. DYE INKS WORK JUST FINE. As for your issues, I also use JPSS and have not had this issue at all. I'm curious to see of someone else has?

You are correct to a degree. if you are only going to use JET Pro Sofstretch as a transfer paper then you may get away with it. But no one does. meaning what if the person wants to press opaque transfers.. then my friend.. nope stay with pigment ink.. By the way I am an ex demo rep fro epson. I know about inks.. JPSS seems to work wth dye inks.. I would not say it is better.And unless you have used both then it is only your use on a dye inks that you can talk about. mre I would not risk it.

R1Lover · July 18th, 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by badalou


	You are correct to a degree. if you are only going to use JET Pro Sofstretch as a transfer paper then you may get away with it. But no one does. meaning what if the person wants to press opaque transfers.. then my friend.. nope stay with pigment ink.. By the way I am an ex demo rep fro epson. I know about inks.. JPSS seems to work wth dye inks.. I would not say it is better.And unless you have used both then it is only your use on a dye inks that you can talk about. mre I would not risk it.

With all due respect, I also use the same dye inks with Alpha for Darks and experience almost perfect performance. I have shirts I have washed over 10 times so far testing with very very little fading.

All I can do is speak from my experience and so far I have no complaints on the dye ink I'm using on both JPSS and Alpha for Darks. I will also add that I did get some paper from best blanks with my press and that paper is junk and ran all over the place. Now would that paper have been so bad with pigment inks? That would be a very good question and test to perform.

I was just stating my experience and also my experience with this site when I first came here, I researched what inks to use and the overwhelming opinion was that dye inks don't work well with transfers. I found this completely false with my testing and transfers that I have done.

My point in trying to post this was to help others like myself who come here and make sure they have the proper information rather then wrong info.

Girlzndollz · July 18th, 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by charles7


	Thanks for the reply my heat is at 350 should i still increase it ... i'll try increasing the pressure

Up your temp as well. JPSS should be set for 375*. Pre-press your shirt to remove the moisture prior to pressing the paper. After you press, "hot" peel and quickly, give the shirt a gentle stretch and re-press it with teflon or parchment paper over the design.

No, I have not had this issue. But, I follow the steps in this post to press my transfers. I'm sending you the link. Read the post and see what you are doing different.
transfer paper tips for lasting image

INKS AND PAPERS:

Before JPSS and Claria dye ink, the standard was, and still very much is, use pigment ink.

"Regular" Dye will wash out when used with Most Papers on the market, except JPSS generally (test your ink first.)

Pigment ink gives you the most flexibility to choose any paper you want to try.

I have used both pigment and dye inks. Started with Dye ink and it faded on both Ironall Dark and Ironall Light. Switched to Pigment and it did not fade, at all. Then used pigment with JPSS, worked great, and experimented with dye, worked great. But only with JPSS for me.

So when JPSS paper came along, we found out that JPSS can retain colorfastness in the wash with dye ink.

I've been washing a shirt in warm water - with bleach - and it still does not fade. Here are the pics:
Wow! Jetprosofstretch JPSS & Bleach Results -pictures - dye and pigment ink

Another thing to note: Not long after JPSS came out, Epson came out with their Claira Dye ink. We have found out that quite a few different heat transfer papers can retain colorfastness when used with Claria dye ink. Claria dye ink is touted by Epson as a "water resistant dye". That seems to makes it act different from regular dye inks. Here are some pics of Claria with other papers:
Claria Ink Results ~~pictures!!
There are links in this thread to more pics for you, too.

Depending on what ink and what paper you choose, you may be able to go away from the standard "pigment ink for use with heat trasnfer paper" advice. This advice is still very true, but a few new players in the game have added some new rules.

Girlzndollz · July 18th, 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by R1Lover


	With all due respect, I also use the same dye inks with Alpha for Darks and experience almost perfect performance. I have shirts I have washed over 10 times so far testing with very very little fading.

Some dyes do hang in there for a while. But I'm personally looking for way longer than 10 weeks, with a fade that is imperceivable.

A length of 10 weeks might only get a customer to 2 months time before this fading starts. If they love your shirt, they may wash and wear it alot, getting to those 10 washes in that time. I don't think that's a long enough period for them to start to see a failure in the shirt.

Of course, alot depends on your price point, and what perceived quality the item was sold under. That might be a respectable amount of time between you and the customer.

But I've gotten way longer than that, with no fade from my Ironall Dark with pigment ink.

Is there anyway for you to go to an office store with a piece of Alpha Gold and ask someone to print a test for you on your paper? Tell them you may want to buy a pigment printer but only if it works better. You may find someone who will print it.

If not, ask around to your friends who may have an Epson. Alot of graphics and photo nutz have them, so you might have a local buddy with one. Ask them to print it for you.

Then you can do a real comparison for yourself. Just to see how it goes. Those c120's were cheap on Epson.com in the clearance section. If you can add a few months to the product, it might be worth it.

If there is no difference, at least you know.

PS: I hope my prior post help explains why you see "pigment ink" recommended in prior posts. JPSS is relatively new, and so is Claria dye ink, compared to some of the threads that date back as far as 2 yrs + ago. I'm one of the folks trying to help get the updated info out there, but the info has to be given clearly and carefully, or some newbie may end up with the wrong combination of paper and ink, and end up with product failure and disappointed customers, whereas pigment is always a safe bet.

R1Lover · July 18th, 2008

This is all great information and I'm glad both of you have spoken up on the real truth to this information.

I have used Claria dye ink although now I'm using a CIS from Alpha supply, I have used this on ironall for darks but although there was more fading with this in addition to the paper being un-smooth and I ended up sending it back. I have tried a few different papers and all of them seem to be fine so far with die ink CIS.

Right now I have three papers I'm using with dye ink with no trouble

Alpha for Darks
JPSS
Un Branded

badalou · July 18th, 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by R1Lover


	With all due respect, I also use the same dye inks with Alpha for Darks and experience almost perfect performance. I have shirts I have washed over 10 times so far testing with very very little fading. All I can do is speak from my experience and so far I have no complaints on the dye ink I'm using on both JPSS and Alpha for Darks. I will also add that I did get some paper from best blanks with my press and that paper is junk and ran all over the place. Now would that paper have been so bad with pigment inks? That would be a very good question and test to perform. I was just stating my experience and also my experience with this site when I first came here, I researched what inks to use and the overwhelming opinion was that dye inks don't work well with transfers. I found this completely false with my testing and transfers that I have done. My point in trying to post this was to help others like myself who come here and make sure they have the proper information rather then wrong info.

Well then there you are.. Your giivng proper information and not the wrong information. I guess my years of working with transfer papers and different inks and doing a lot of testing means very little. what you found false was your using the paper and the inks using your printer and your method of washing is that dye ink worked. Outstanding. There is an industry standard (Pigment inks) And the reason for this is that there has been testing done by people in a better position then you or I to do proper testing. I have done my own and over the last 3 years have built my reputation on my knowledge of transfer paers, printing and even washing.. You need to understand there are many varible involved. Yes you will have good results in some cases with dye inks. But I stand behind my statement that you are limiting your choices of papers to use. Why do that. If your reasoning is it is because you have a dye base printer that is not reason enough. Why limit. Buy a printer proven to work with all transfers. If you are going t buy a printer to use. If you own a dye base printer then I wish you the best with the few papers you will be able to use with good results.

badalou · July 18th, 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Girlzndollz


	Some dyes do hang in there for a while. But I'm personally looking for way longer than 10 weeks, with a fade that is imperceivable. A length of 10 weeks might only get a customer to 2 months time before this fading starts. If they love your shirt, they may wash and wear it alot, getting to those 10 washes in that time. I don't think that's a long enough period for them to start to see a failure in the shirt. Of course, alot depends on your price point, and what perceived quality the item was sold under. That might be a respectable amount of time between you and the customer. But I've gotten way longer than that, with no fade from my Ironall Dark with pigment ink. Is there anyway for you to go to an office store with a piece of Alpha Gold and ask someone to print a test for you on your paper? Tell them you may want to buy a pigment printer but only if it works better. You may find someone who will print it. If not, ask around to your friends who may have an Epson. Alot of graphics and photo nutz have them, so you might have a local buddy with one. Ask them to print it for you. Then you can do a real comparison for yourself. Just to see how it goes. Those c120's were cheap on Epson.com in the clearance section. If you can add a few months to the product, it might be worth it. If there is no difference, at least you know. PS: I hope my prior post help explains why you see "pigment ink" recommended in prior posts. JPSS is relatively new, and so is Claria dye ink, compared to some of the threads that date back as far as 2 yrs + ago. I'm one of the folks trying to help get the updated info out there, but the info has to be given clearly and carefully, or some newbie may end up with the wrong combination of paper and ink, and end up with product failure and disappointed customers, whereas pigment is always a safe bet.

and on that we agree...

R1Lover · July 18th, 2008

I have the Epson 1400, from what I understand it can be used with pigment ink as well, I will also give this a try the next time I buy ink. I will say though, I'm not limited to anything that I know of. I have a couple papers that work great for lights and one that works great for darks.
The reason I'm willing to give pigment ink a try is because of your post, while reading this forum everyone says pigment, pigment... while this may be the norm before other papers hit the market as you explained, it's not always the case as we have all explained.

10 washes so far is about all I could do, I will continue to wash them once or twice a week with normal loads and see the result.

For me, what I'm doing now seems to be working just fine. Your statement on the quality level of my work or customers is far fetched as well..... I will never put out an inferior product and everything I produce has gone though testing to ensure this. If you think 10 washes is not enough to see how a product is going to perform then I disagree.

I didn't mean to start a mess here with you, I just wanted to post up accurate information for the members and let them choose for themselves.

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