Discuss the various aspects of heat press technology. Transfer paper, inks, plastisol transfers, vinyl cutters, printers, commercial usage, durability, suppliers, etc.
At least that's what my brother says. He claims Durabrite has the market on resin encapsulated pigment ink and most others use a water based carrier.
I gotta tell you I usually leave the technical stuff to him cause he enjoys things like that and I don't.
But now my concern is I just loaded my Epson's new refillable cartridges with Ink Owl pigmented ink and am wondering if it's gonna hold up as well as the OEM stuff that I've used thus far for ink transfers?
I've read as many threads as I could find here on pigmented ink and have found no reference to this brand. Is anyone here using Ink Owl brand with success?
Don't know if you read my thread, "OEM Durabrite ink -- black turns green!", but I wouldn't use the Durabrite ink unless I HAD to. It breaks down under the heat of the press, so the colors of the transfer prior to pressing is COMPLETELY different than afterwards! I've switched to refillable cartridges with inksupply.com heat transfer ink. Once I get it, I'll let you know how it is, but SUPPOSEDLY, you don't have to adjust the colors with every print to get all the yellow out, and the black is supposedly one of the blackest on the market. Guess I'll see for myself soon!
Haven't used the "Owl" ink that you mentioned, but I guess it wouldn't hurt to give it a shot! Just as long as it's pigment ink, I think it's probably equal to Durabrite's ink. The better inks are those formulated for use with a heat press...
OK, Malissa you know I love ya.... but that is just not true. I have been using durabrite inks for years with transfers and in case you did not read it here I am also a former epson demo rep. I have yet to have any of my transfers printed with black ink turn green. and I have never adjusted any colors. Now I will say that black can be a little lighter black then you would like to see.. but green.. I need photos.. Owl ink? Now that is a strange bird... never heard of it. It will be interesting to find out what takes place with inks when the lawyers get to craken their whip..
__________________ There is a center to everything.. I found mine at.. www.heatpressessentials.com Tools to get the job done! www.tbiz101.com (New)Heat Transfer Education
but that is just not true. I have been using durabrite inks for years with transfers and in case you did not read it here I am also a former epson demo rep. I have yet to have any of my transfers printed with black ink turn green.
I know you worked for Epson in the past, that's how you've provided the dye vs. pigment water test and all the expertise you've provided the Forum. However, I HAVE had a problem with Durabrite inks -- now the question is, is the problem JUST the yellow or the combination of yellow with the black -- I don't know for sure:
One design was a photo in a "frame" that looked like a negative. Image looked good before pressing, but after, the black was a dark, dark green and the people were really yellow (I've since learned through the Forum that colors have to be adjusted to at least -15 yellow +5 magenta and +5 cyan to get rid of the "yellow people syndrome"). You've had NO yellowing problem at all?!?
Just recently, did a design where the text that was gray -- and it turned olive green after pressing on 100% cotton Gilden Ultra t-shirt, but returned to gray color several days later. I was shocked! When I tried to color adjust the image, (-20 yellow +5 magenta +5 cyan) the text was purple, so I threw it out. I went back to all values at 0, and the same exact image as on the t-shirt also turned olive green upon pressing on a 50/50 Gilden Ultra sweatshirt. It has NOT returned to gray, however, as the t-shirt did. I did another sweatshirt that night (as a gift to my hubby) and put a gray, spraypaint "swish" in the background. The swish also turned olive green upon pressing, and is still olive green as it sits on my dining room table. HOWEVER, the pure black text in the design WAS still black after pressing.
I do have photos for proof -- I took them this weekend, and wanted to download from my camera and post to the Forum, but my daughter commandeered the computer most of this weekend, and I was lucky to get on for a few seconds just to check the threads... I will try to post them tonight so you can see what I mean.
So now, what exactly is causing the problem? Is the yellow "contaminating" the black? Is gray a composite color (made up of CMY along with the black), and that's what's causing the color shift, or is it the black I'm having a problem with?
I don't really know, but I can't sit and adjust the colors like a madwoman every time I create a design but it's hard to know what's going to happen after pressing. I certainly can't tell a customer, "Oh, I know the gray LOOKS green, but it MIGHT change back in a few days..." That's why I'm investing in inksupply.com's heat transfer ink, so that hopefully, I won't have to be surprised after pressing -- and believe me, with all of the startup costs that I've had to date, I wouldn't have switched from the Durabrite unless I WAS experiencing these color shifting problems. After experiencing this, I did a search of both this forum and the Yahoo Groups, and there are many who have the same color shifting problem -- not just me -- so at least I know I am not crazy!
Appreciate the input from both of you. When I first started pressing Ink Transfers which was't that long ago, I also had a few black images end up dark green with Durabrite. I was using a locally purchased paper at the time. Since I've switched to IronAll, this has happened only once that I recall when I believe I overcooked the transfer. Perhaps I also overcooked the 'cheap' paper' that I started with and am just too dumb to know it.
I understand the concept of black being created with a combination of the other cartridge colors under different circumstances, I just figured perhaps for some reason, red was required less than the other colors to make black and when overcooked threw the balance off producing the green end result. Purely speculation on my part I know, the only issue I have with Durabrite is co$t and the fact that Epson is making $ from any purchase of it I make. Don't ask me about that one, it'll be a two page rant.
No problem about the input on your thread -- that's what this Forum is all about: sharing experiences and problems, and others trying to advise...
Badalou is our Most Helpful Member as printed on his brown shirt -- he has produced 22+ videos on YouTube, and is very experienced. I've turned to him many times already for advice, and he's always "on the mark", so I'm surprised he has not had the problems that I am experiencing. However, I'm happy for him that he's not!
I'm thinking that the main problem is probably not the black itself, but maybe the yellow influencing the black to turn dark green. I hadn't realized this before posting this morning, but the black text in my hubby's sweatshirt was fine -- it was only the gray that was affected and turned green. However in the shirt containing a photo in a black "negative frame", the black part turned dark green and the people were really yellow... Maybe that black was a composite of colors to make up the black instead of being purely from the black cartridge? Or maybe the over-abundant yellow from the photo contaminated the black of the "negative frame"?
I just don't like that Durabrite prints one way, and after pressing looks another depending on the colors involved. By the way, the info on different heat transfer ink sites say "the yellow will not turn green" so I'm guessing that the yellow is messing with the black somehow. Hopefully, the new ink will solve this problem, and I can finally get to producing some shirts without the color shifting, and start making some money instead of spending it all the time! LOL...
Let us know how the "Owl" ink works out for ya...
BTW, I had the problem both with IronAll AND with the new Jet Pro SofStretch, so the T/P is not the problem. I also used both papers at exactly the recommended temps and times, so I don't think "overcooking" is the reason for the color shifting.
Melissa
Last edited by angelic_endeavor; January 2nd, 2008 at 08:38 AM.
Reason: to add information
No problem about the input on your thread -- that's what this Forum is all about: sharing experiences and problems, and others trying to advise...
Badalou is our Most Helpful Member as printed on his brown shirt -- he has produced 22+ videos on YouTube, and is very experienced. I've turned to him many times already for advice, and he's always "on the mark", so I'm surprised he has not had the problems that I am experiencing. However, I'm happy for him that he's not!
I'm thinking that the main problem is probably not the black itself, but maybe the yellow influencing the black to turn dark green. I hadn't realized this before posting this morning, but the black text in my hubby's sweatshirt was fine -- it was only the gray that was affected and turned green. However in the shirt containing a photo in a black "negative frame", the black part turned dark green and the people were really yellow... Maybe that black was a composite of colors to make up the black instead of being purely from the black cartridge? Or maybe the over-abundant yellow from the photo contaminated the black of the "negative frame"?
I just don't like that Durabrite prints one way, and after pressing looks another depending on the colors involved. By the way, the info on different heat transfer ink sites say "the yellow will not turn green" so I'm guessing that the yellow is messing with the black somehow. Hopefully, the new ink will solve this problem, and I can finally get to producing some shirts without the color shifting, and start making some money instead of spending it all the time! LOL...
Let us know how the "Owl" ink works out for ya...
BTW, I had the problem both with IronAll AND with the new Jet Pro SofStretch, so the T/P is not the problem. I also used both papers at exactly the recommended temps and times, so I don't think "overcooking" is the reason for the color shifting.
Melissa
My Dearest Melissa.. I wish I did have the problem. Then I could help you. I don't know why I have not had the problem. It may be the combination of colors that is on a design. Here is a test for you. It is similar to my due/pigment ink test. Do 4 -2 inch boxes on one side of a transfer. Then color them in this sequence. yellow, red. blue, black. You see what I am doing... Lighter color first. Place one on top of the other so the black is the last block is printed last. Then flip the paper so you print on the other side of the paper and revers the printing order.. black blue red and yellow. I hope you get this. And I hope I am not insulting you by saying that.. Make sure you print one side at a time. let us know if you see a difference in the colors.
__________________ There is a center to everything.. I found mine at.. www.heatpressessentials.com Tools to get the job done! www.tbiz101.com (New)Heat Transfer Education
My Dearest Melissa.. I wish I did have the problem. Then I could help you. I don't know why I have not had the problem. It may be the combination of colors that is on a design. Here is a test for you. It is similar to my due/pigment ink test. Do 4 -2 inch boxes on one side of a transfer. Then color them in this sequence. yellow, red. blue, black. You see what I am doing... Lighter color first. Place one on top of the other so the black is the last block is printed last. Then flip the paper so you print on the other side of the paper and revers the printing order.. black blue red and yellow. I hope you get this. And I hope I am not insulting you by saying that.. Make sure you print one side at a time. let us know if you see a difference in the colors.
Hi Lou, no I am not insulted, and I THINK I understand what you're saying. Once I get done printing, am I supposed to press it on a shirt? I don't have any problems with the colors after being printed. I have problems with the color shifting once it's pressed.
Don't know if I can get to the print test you described tonight, but I will try to upload the photo of the design I did for my hubby with what's supposed to be a gray swish in the background. After pressing, it's actually an olive green with a blue edge. You'll see when I upload the photos... Would love to do a "replay" of my brother-in-law's shirt so you can see exactly what I mean about the gray text, but can't justify spending all that money to waste another transfer and shirt in the process... I'll ask him if I can borrow his shirt to take a picture. Samt thing -- olive green after pressing.
Lou, I was able to download the pictures from my camera. In the first shot, you'll see the entire design with the swish behind it. Keep in mind that the swish is supposed to be gray -- not green. In the second picture, you'll see a closeup of the swish -- which is actually a drab green with a blue edge. In the third picture you'll see a jpg of the original design. Please note that the colors DID print exactly as it was designed. It was only after pressing that the gray swish turned green.
I also did not trim the design, since it was the second sweatshirt done using Jet Pro SofStretch, (the other sweatshirt was done for my brother-in-law, and used JPSS especially because they use commercial washers and dryers and I wanted to see what would happen to it) and I wanted to see how much of the T/P you would see after washing.
Hope you can understand now why I'm a little peeved with the Durabrite ink. I wish I had taken a picture of B-I-L's shirt with text that came out olive green instead of duct tape gray, and the other shirt made for a friend, which everyone looks bright yellow and the black negative frame that looked dark green! From what I've read, after washing that can sometimes dissapate, so I'm waiting to see for myself. Will be at friend's house on Sunday, and can ask to see her shirt which has been laundered since giving to her...
Hey it just dawned on me why you haven't experienced these problems -- didn't you say you've been using refillable carts with Coastal ink? Maybe the formulation of the ink has changed since you worked for Epson or since you've been using the Coastal ink...
Lou, I was able to download the pictures from my camera. In the first shot, you'll see the entire design with the swish behind it. Keep in mind that the swish is supposed to be gray -- not green. In the second picture, you'll see a closeup of the swish -- which is actually a drab green with a blue edge. In the third picture you'll see a jpg of the original design. Please note that the colors DID print exactly as it was designed. It was only after pressing that the gray swish turned green.
I also did not trim the design, since it was the second sweatshirt done using Jet Pro SofStretch, (the other sweatshirt was done for my brother-in-law, and used JPSS especially because they use commercial washers and dryers and I wanted to see what would happen to it) and I wanted to see how much of the T/P you would see after washing.
Hope you can understand now why I'm a little peeved with the Durabrite ink. I wish I had taken a picture of B-I-L's shirt with text that came out olive green instead of duct tape gray, and the other shirt made for a friend, which everyone looks bright yellow and the black negative frame that looked dark green! From what I've read, after washing that can sometimes dissipate, so I'm waiting to see for myself. Will be at friend's house on Sunday, and can ask to see her shirt which has been laundered since giving to her...
Hey it just dawned on me why you haven't experienced these problems -- didn't you say you've been using refillable carts with Coastal ink? Maybe the formulation of the ink has changed since you worked for Epson or since you've been using the Coastal ink...
Melissa
OK, now I get it. I thought we were talking about black becoming green. Not gray.. gray is not made form black but a mixture of colors. So that is why your getting the greenish tone. I also have a cx7800 that uses durabrite inks. So I use both. I did notice in your picture that the black numbers are black. One thing that happens when you print on cotton the colors lighten. Unlike photo paper. On paper the colors (Durabrite) soak into the paper so the paper is not part of the background. When you print on a transfer the paper or coating of the paper stays on top of the cloth. That is why you still see the coating around your image but also now you have added the color of the shirt as a color of the design. Meaning white is now a primary color and it is what makes your colors lighter in the design. Find out what the hex number is for gray. Check your hex number on your design. That is what your telling the printer to print. Somewhere in my messy office I have a color chart that gives me the color numbers. Many times we print a picture on our screen and it looks like what we want and then we print it and find the true colors. And depending on the paper we use it come out different based on that type of paper. If you want true colors then you need to use the correct numbers for that colors. That is why printers want the pantone colors when you do an order for plastisol transfers. It is not the ink so much as it is the eye. And now I have had this problem but I found out long ago I need to use on the color code not my eyes.
__________________ There is a center to everything.. I found mine at.. www.heatpressessentials.com Tools to get the job done! www.tbiz101.com (New)Heat Transfer Education
OK, now I get it. I thought we were talking about black becoming green. Not gray.. gray is not made form black but a mixture of colors. So that is why your getting the greenish tone. I also have a cx7800 that uses durabrite inks. So I use both. I did notice in your picture that the black numbers are black. One thing that happens when you print on cotton the colors lighten. Unlike photo paper. On paper the colors (Durabrite) soak into the paper so the paper is not part of the background. When you print on a transfer the paper or coating of the paper stays on top of the cloth. That is why you still see the coating around your image but also now you have added the color of the shirt as a color of the design. Meaning white is now a primary color and it is what makes your colors lighter in the design. Find out what the hex number is for gray. Check your hex number on your design. That is what your telling the printer to print. Somewhere in my messy office I have a color chart that gives me the color numbers. Many times we print a picture on our screen and it looks like what we want and then we print it and find the true colors. And depending on the paper we use it come out different based on that type of paper. If you want true colors then you need to use the correct numbers for that colors. That is why printers want the pantone colors when you do an order for plastisol transfers. It is not the ink so much as it is the eye. And now I have had this problem but I found out long ago I need to use on the color code not my eyes.
here is a site that might help.. Choosing your colors - 23 Notice the color slate gray.. it is green to me..
__________________ There is a center to everything.. I found mine at.. www.heatpressessentials.com Tools to get the job done! www.tbiz101.com (New)Heat Transfer Education
Thanks Lou for responding. I know (very well) that what you see on the screen is not necessarily what prints out...
However, I think I need to stress the fact that: it DOES print out GRAY on both Iron All and Jet ProSofStretch, EXACTLY AS IT APPEARS IN THE DESIGN. It's AFTER PRESSING that it turns GREEN. This happened with all 3 designs pressed that had gray design or gray text.
This is what leads me to believe that it is the heat influence on the ink (in general, whether it is a composite black or the yellow) causing the problem.
I did note that the tires of the car and the print that was in black was unaffected in this design. As I've said before, perhaps the black was pure black from the black cartridge, and not a COMPOSITE of colors to make black? I think any time YELLOW is involved, that when the problems begin...
I would easily be able to recreate the same problems once again -- all I have to do is print with all color adjustment values at 0 (default), print (all the colors look fine at this point), and then press -- viola! Instant yellow people, green text or design, etc.! I didn't really mind adjusting the colors to avoid the "Yellow People Syndrome" when printing photos, however, it seems that yellow is involved in many colors that will shift once the heat press is applied -- and I just don't have the money, time or the patience to deal with that anymore.
I received my refillable inkjet cartridges in a FLASH from inkjetcarts.us -- it was an absolute pleasure to deal with them (especially since I had placed an order for the entire kit of ink, carts and refill stuff, when I had only intended to purchase the carts and the refill stuff and had to cancel the first order), and at only $16 a set, WHAT A STEAL! I am still awaiting the inks from inksupply.com. Just checked their site, and they state:
These are the benefits of the Inksupply.com HT Heat Transfer ink.
The yellow will not turn green, due to heat, during transfer process.
High resistance to sublimation which can cause color changes.
HT inks are water fast and do not run or bleed when washed.
The Dmax on the black is very high, over 1.70.
Decreased dry time.
Capable of printing on T-Jet, O-Jet and Glo-Jet Heat Transfer papers.
Superior flow through on continuous-feed systems.
Greater resistance to water and better durability than previous Heat Transfer inks.
I am hoping that this will be the answer to my problems with the Durabrite ink! As an added bonus, the initial investment of $96 (carts + 16 oz of ink) which will supposedly equal something like 9 sets of Durabrite at $66 here in NY which would have equalled $594! A savings of nearly $500 AND solves my color shifting problem?!? WORKS FOR ME!!
Melissa
P.S. If you look back at the photos you will see that ALL other parts of the design were fine -- the colors of the design match the color of the pressed sweatshirt. Why? Probably because the car is a golden (yellow) color...
Last edited by angelic_endeavor; January 3rd, 2008 at 10:39 AM.
here is a site that might help.. Choosing your colors - 23 Notice the color slate gray.. it is green to me..
LOL... it actually looks GRAY to me! I know that color is different from monitor to monitor (I know b/c I have 3 PC's in my house), and printer to printer (use 2 different color printers at home and 3 different printers at work and they ALL print DIFFERENTLY!) I also know color is subjective to one's own eyes (b/c of the PHYSICAL difference). But I think there's a HUGE difference between what the gray swish prints like, and what is DOES look like after pressing! Good thing my husband isn't that picky when it comes to his sweatshirts -- he's just happy I spent the time creating the design and actually making something for HIM for once! LOL... He IS however, very discerning when it comes to his wife...
Thanks for all the thought you've put into trying to help me, once again. It's is ALWAYS appreciated! After all, there's a REASON you're who I call "The Godfather" of the T-shirt Forums! And it's NOT because you call yourself OLD
LOL... it actually looks GRAY to me! I know that color is different from monitor to monitor (I know b/c I have 3 PC's in my house), and printer to printer (use 2 different color printers at home and 3 different printers at work and they ALL print DIFFERENTLY!) I also know color is subjective to one's own eyes (b/c of the PHYSICAL difference). But I think there's a HUGE difference between what the gray swish prints like, and what is DOES look like after pressing! Good thing my husband isn't that picky when it comes to his sweatshirts -- he's just happy I spent the time creating the design and actually making something for HIM for once! LOL... He IS however, very discerning when it comes to his wife...
Thanks for all the thought you've put into trying to help me, once again. It's is ALWAYS appreciated! After all, there's a REASON you're who I call "The Godfather" of the T-shirt Forums! And it's NOT because you call yourself OLD
Melissa
All in all I think we both presented a lot of educational info for others to learn from. Let us know how the new inks work. Each of us experence different problems with the use of transfers and having this open forum helps us all.
__________________ There is a center to everything.. I found mine at.. www.heatpressessentials.com Tools to get the job done! www.tbiz101.com (New)Heat Transfer Education
Pigmented Inks aren't created equal? 
Re: Pigmented Inks aren't created equal? 
And it's NOT because you call yourself OLD
