Discuss the various aspects of heat press technology. Transfer paper, inks, plastisol transfers, vinyl cutters, printers, commercial usage, durability, suppliers, etc.
I've been reading for hours on the pros and cons of ChromaBlast and the big question at hand is...What process to use for cotton shirts. ChromaBlast is evidently not the "sublimation process for cotton" that they lead you to believe. I'll be using the Epson 4800 hybrid printer with dyesub in one side and whatever I decide on for cotton in the other. I figure I can keep some poly shirts on hand for the folks who want the best quality and don't mind paying for it...and cotton for the folks looking for cheap.
I guess trimming the transfer isn't that big a deal, although it would be nice to avoid. I wouldn't spend a lot of time trimming and if the customer doesn't like that, well, they have the dyesub option. IE: I would not spend the time to trim tight to every letter and detail. From what I've read, ChromaBlast does in fact leave some unprinted transfer and there is no user confirmation that is definitely washes out 100%, so for top quality, ChromaBlast may even require trimming.
I think the best way to avoid the "clear window" thing is to avoid (1) Fading to background color and (2) Try to incorporate a border of some sort that would be easy to trim around.
Costs....Durabright Vs ChromaBlast...I'm guessing that the inks and transfer papers are a lot less money for the IronAll type process.
ChromaBlast was redeveloped about 3-4 months ago. So some of the eariler reports (which might had been accurate at that time) are really about the first version of the product. In my opinion, it has gotten better. Now saying this, I really like it for white tees only. I have seen 1 print on a color tee and you can see the window / border. I have not tried it, but have been told that the ChromaBlast paper can't be print-cut to remove the excess polymer using an optical eye cutter. It is not weedable. As for cost, I am not sure what the Durabright & Ironall will cost you. ChromaBlast is around $2 - $2.50 a print according to Sawgrass. So, compare that to what the cost would be for you to get the Durabright & Ironall.
As far as I know, there is no hybrid software that has profiled the Durabright inks or the Ironall paper. Sawgrass' software restricts you to SubliJet IQ and ChromaBlast inks only. MultiRIP has profiled a heat transfer ink that is probably similar to the Durabright inks, but it has not been tested so you would have to do that. However, I have seen the profiles for heat transfer paper in MultiRIP work very well on other types of transfer paper using the heat transfer ink. You also have the option of creating your own profiles, but remember that they need to be done as a 4-channel (CMYK only) profile on the 4800 printer. They are not readily available in the market (I know, because MultiRIP had to create all of their own by scratch).
The other thing is that you either need to find the Durabright inks already cartridge for the correct side of the printer based on your hybrid software or you you need to buy the refillable cartridges and pour Durabright ink into them. If you go with the refillable cartridges, don't buy the cheap ones. They leak and don't have a really good connection with the printer and that leads ink starvation. Your best option would be to get the Durabright inks already in 4800 cartridges. However, remember that each channel of ink on the 4800 is going to be looking for a specific chip on the cartridge and each cartridge has tabs on the top of it so you can't put them on the wrong side.
I don't want this to sound negative, but you need to know all the things you have to get before you invest in the printer and software if you are going to create your own hybrid. These are all the things that MultiRIP had to do when it first got started.
Thanks Mark. Very helpful as usual. I've talked to a few vendors and I'm now considering two Epson 1400 printers instead of the hybrid. My though is that I will need more than 8.5" wide but except on very rare occations, won't need more that 13" wide. I can set up one printer for injet transfers, which doesn't require any special ink, and the other with a bulk dyesub system. For the more demanding T-shirt customers, they will have the option of a dyesub shirt. This lowers my startup costs, covers both cotton shirts and sublimation, covers the width I need and I won't need an $800 RIP. At some point I think I'll want one, but I won't need it to get started.
Still doing research, but that's the direction I'm headed at the moment.
Keep in mind that I'm already set up for screen printing, so this setup is strictly for short run/one-off use and/or mobile use. I think if I had 20+ shirts with a simple logo up to 3 colors, I'd screen print it...Although once I start heat pressing, I might change my mind.
Seems like you are going down a good track. The 1400 printer seems to be doing pretty well from the early reports. The only difference between the two setups is you are still running bulk feed systems on the 1400 and have the inherent challenges with them (lines clogging,...). Not sure if Sawgrass has come up with what would be the price per print for the 1400, but would image it would be close to its predecessor - the 1280. Running the RIP would also give you halftone film positives, but you might already have this with film output printer and it would be unnecessary.
Let everyone here know how the 1400 works out. Hopefully, it is an improvement from the 1280. Best wishes.
It is supposed to be a vast improvement. The Artanium bulk system is available but a bulk system for pigment or dye inks is not. Not from the reputable resellers anyway. There are some bulk systems on eBay, but my gut feeling is that if there was a reliable bulk system out there, the reputable resellers would be handling it. They are not terribly expensive, so I guess it could be worth a try.
Thanks again for all you help Mark. You've made this decision quite a bit easier.
I am new to the transfer/sublimation part of the business. I have been in the embroidery/screen print business since 1998. We have had an Epson 4800 hybrid for a couple of months and I hate it. Chromablast ink is very expensive. We have only run about 150 transfers and had to have new ink. The 4800 wants to be cleaned way too often. I haven't even tried the sublimation side and the ink is half gone. My husband didn't do enough research before buying the hybrid or we would have two printers instead of this one.
Carol
What you are talking about is the automatically cleaning that all the Epson printers do. Sawgrass just put a memo out about this. It is a part of the firmware and can only be manipulated by Epson - not even a RIP can override these settings. No one really knows what the determining factor is, but most believe it is based on the number of pico-liters or dots that are printed. So, whether it is a 4800 printer or 1400 printer, they will do basically the same amount of cleanings and ultimately...waste the same amount of ink.
The 4800 will also do a cleaning during start-up. To avoid this, leave the printer on (but have it plugged into a surge protector). The printer will go into sleep mode when not used. However, it does not do a cleaning when waking up from sleep mode. That should help some. If you ask anyone that has run a 1280 or R1800 bulk feed system for sublimation, they can tell you that you run head cleanings all the time to get all the nozzles firing correctly. That is just what is needed because the ink is heavier than traditional Epson ink. The only difference is the 4800 does this for you automatically, so you spend less of your time getting your printer ready.
However, if you look at it from a cost standpoint, you will notice that doing a cleaning using 4 SubliJet IQ cartridges ($147.50/each) and 4 ChromaBlast cartridges ($110/each) cost less than running 6-8 bags of SubliJet IQ ($147.50/each) on one printer and 6-8 bags of ChromaBlast ink ($110/each). You could choose not to run one of the printers, but then you would have to run head cleanings to get it work properly. Either way, you are in the same position. If you really want to save money and you only use 1 side of a hybrid, get cleaning cartridges that are cheaper and put them in there. The 4800 printer requires that you have something in the lines, but it does not have to be ink. That is another little trick.
The other thing is that level of ink in your cartridge is not that accurate on the 4800. I have been told that the sensor is in the cartridge (probably part of the chip) and it only takes in account the ink in the cartridge. So, the ink in the lines and printhead are not accounted for. Rumors are that it takes around 20 ML of ink to fill the lines and the printhead. The smaller machines have the cartridges in the printhead - which is where their chips are. So, it uses a different technique for "guessing" how much ink you have left. Personally, I don't think any of them are very accurate in my opinion.
It is important to understand that all the numbers you see that talk about the cost per a print is based off of the cost for doing that one print. They don't factor in the cost for cleanings. This goes for inkjet, sublimation, direct-to-garment,...anything that uses an Epson printer. So, you need to inflate your printing cost to cover this amount. I just had a discussion with Printzilla (another member here) and he tends to inflate the cost of ink by 150% to cover cleanings, nozzle checks, misprints,… Most of us wish this was not the case, but that is they way the printer was built by Epson. Just part of the game we have to play with.
Hope this adds some light to where your ink is going.
Interesting stuff on the self cleaning cycles Mark. I was told by one of the vendors that making a small test print once a day will keep the bulk ink fresh and prevent clogging....Like printing test pattern. Do you know how often the printer goes through a self cleaning cycle? I'm wondering if that alone is enough to keep the bulk ink fresh.
Mark,
Thank you for the explanation on ink. From everything you said in your post I know that we aren't charging enough for our work. I didn't realize that sublimation/transfer ink cost that much more than screen print ink. I did not take ink lose into consideration either. Embroidery was my hobby so I knew what I was getting into when we opened the embroidery shop. There have been more surprises with printing. We have someone coming to look at the 4800 tomorrow. After trying three different yellow ink cartridges and many cleanings we still can't get yellow to print. We have been on the phone with Sawgrass, Chromablast and Epson several times today. I'm not having fun! I really appreciate your help.
Carol
Sorry to hear about your problems. If you open the lid, can you see if the yellow ink is going into the printhead? This is where I would start first. Not sure if you have tried other cartridges (i.e. most printers come with a set of starter cartridges of ink). If you can get that one to print, then you probably have a bad cartridge. If not, then there might be a block in the line or a problem with the nozzles in the head. If the latter is the case, then a cleaning cartridge should help.
These are just some of the things that I would look at. Hopefully, the person coming on Wednesday can help you get it working. Stay positive. The 4800 is definitely worth it.
I just purchased an epson 1400 with bulk artainium ink. It is working very well but you really had to pay attention on your ICC profile and follow ALL the steps. took me about 3 hours and some tech help but I have it up and unnning. It seems a bit more sturdier than my 1280 and so far no problem with clogging..If one does buy it...make sure you get tech support. the bulk system with Artainium ink is so new, the ICC profile is NOT on the supplied CD. You need to call sawgrass and have them send it to you via email
It is supposed to be a vast improvement. The Artanium bulk system is available but a bulk system for pigment or dye inks is not. Not from the reputable resellers anyway. There are some bulk systems on eBay, but my gut feeling is that if there was a reliable bulk system out there, the reputable resellers would be handling it. They are not terribly expensive, so I guess it could be worth a try.
Thanks again for all you help Mark. You've made this decision quite a bit easier.
Ross
Alpha Supply Co. sells a bulk ink system (MagicFlow CIS) and inks (ArTainium and TransMagic) for the 1400 that so far have been wonderful to use. The cartridges can even be used as refillable cartridges in a pinch!
You could even use the bulk system for the 1400 with bottle inks to get a cheaper price per print. (Bags are $128 for 110ml=$1.16 per ml and the bottles are $140 for 125ml=$1.12 per ml) plus the ink bags have been known to leak unexplainably, and cannot be refilled. Also, air is not introduced when refilling bottle/tank type systems.
As always it’s a personal choice when it comes to bag or bottle, but knowing the downside is not always assured.
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Roy - support@alphasupply.com Alpha Supply Company - Dye Sub Tips
Heat Press Equipment and Supplies - 1-800-908-9916
I think the best way to avoid the "clear window" thing is to avoid (1) Fading to background color and (2) Try to incorporate a border of some sort that would be easy to trim around.
I'm using ImageClip with an Oki laser printer. Zero window, even on light colored shirts. Very nice looking prints. Very low start-up cost and per print cost, at least compared to Chromablast.
That looks interesting Jeff. The Oki C3200 is the same price as the Epson 1400, but the C3200 is only 8.5 wide. The Oki 9300, which would be comparable to the 1400 and prints 11x17 is over $4000. Three friends in the screen printing business tell me that their average prints are wider than 8.5".
How is the color fastness on the ImageClip paper? Does it hold up well in the wash? This from an online description also implies that the color reproduction may not be stellar.....
"Image Clip best performs with images not showing vast color reproduction. It works best with logos, icons, etc."
ironAll or Chromablast 
