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I have recently lost a contract customer were I have not charged art fees over a several year period. Do I own this art; does the contract customer own the art, or possibly the end customer? None have been copyrighted or trademarked.
How about if the customer created the art, but I recreated and did the printing separations?
The reason I ask these questions and the reason I lost this contract customer is from non-payment. So is it unlawful to use the art I created to solicit an end customer and use their artwork (hopefully to recoup some of what I have lost).
Although I feel this may also be an ethical discussion, I do not agree. I do not have a contract, but an agreement not to go after the end customer (nor have I even considered doing so), but in the same aspect, I believe I should be paid for my services.
I would appreciate opinions on if I were to solicit the end customer and use or not use there art work (ethical or not). I do not wish to create a bad name for myself, but also do not want people thinking they can rip me off either.
You do have an agreement not to go after the end customer? If so, then don't. Even if the reason is for non-payment.
You want to use customer art for you, or for the original end customer?
Simply copying and doing separations does not give you any ownership rights.
Your situation is a simple issue of non-payment by a customer. Just deal with that issue. Don't complicate it by ignoring non-compete agreements or with design piracy. Your creditability will suffer as a result.
I have recently lost a contract customer were I have not charged art fees over a several year period. Do I own this art; does the contract customer own the art, or possibly the end customer? None have been copyrighted or trademarked.
How about if the customer created the art, but I recreated and did the printing separations?
The reason I ask these questions and the reason I lost this contract customer is from non-payment. So is it unlawful to use the art I created to solicit an end customer and use their artwork (hopefully to recoup some of what I have lost).
Although I feel this may also be an ethical discussion, I do not agree. I do not have a contract, but an agreement not to go after the end customer (nor have I even considered doing so), but in the same aspect, I believe I should be paid for my services.
I would appreciate opinions on if I were to solicit the end customer and use or not use there art work (ethical or not). I do not wish to create a bad name for myself, but also do not want people thinking they can rip me off either.
This is one of the key reasons to get paid 100% upfront. Contract customer or not. And this should issue to be discussed with a lawyer, not on a public forum where most of us probably won't have the most accurate answer.
You do have an agreement not to go after the end customer? If so, then don't. Even if the reason is for non-payment.
You want to use customer art for you, or for the original end customer?
Simply copying and doing separations does not give you any ownership rights.
Your situation is a simple issue of non-payment by a customer. Just deal with that issue. Don't complicate it by ignoring non-compete agreements or with design piracy. Your creditability will suffer as a result.
There not a written agreement or non-compete. Simply verbal, along with agreement of payment, so the verbal contract is voided by the customer (Sorry to be confussing, I refer to contract customers - simply as a middle man who offers printing to there customers).
I wanted to use the art that I created, for the end customer only - not to modify for a new customer (I do that now, since majority is royalty free art to begin with).
I figured it was this way on recreating art.
And thank you for your opinion, it is not worth losing my reputation in any fashion, but still burns me with the loyalty I have shown.
So the main question, if you were certain you were not going to get paid (even with legal action), and you did not have a legal binding contract - would you solicit the end customer (knowing you had done everything possible, and your customer stated they were happy with your work, but simply would not pay you)? Kind of as a hypothetical, I have decided not to do this, but would like other opinions. I have always viewed going after end customers as an absolute not, even in circumstances like this, the fact that I was even considering it burns me more then the non payment itself.
You could always just turn it over to a collections agency(free, they take a % of whats owed), have a lean put against the customer for no payment(a few bucks ) We used to be a 50% upfront company, now we are a 100% upfront company. "Our products are made just for you" 100% upfront, no returns.
You do not own their artwork. Unless you want to have customers sign an agreement that permits you to resell, or use their submitted artwork in your advertising etc...
We have such a clause with one type of our products, Die Cast products. We dont sell the customers products , but we sure do use them for sales ads, cause there are a lot of big names that attract more customers.
Usually with shirts we just ask our client if we can print a couple extras for ourselves to wear and display(including web display). We havent been turned down yet. If any of our client asked us to stop displaing their artwork , we would. Sorry got off a bit there.
If you are unsure of your next move, take Henry`s advive, get pro help.
technically you own the new digitized versions that you created, BUT that doesn't mean you can use them for reselling.. The artwork that you did the seperations for is technically your intellectual property as the client came to you and agreed for your to use their artwork to create a new artwork piece/image- the seperations.
Although you own those you can't use them for reselling.. I know that sounds weird, but that's pretty much how it works from what i know. I've taken a few courses on Business law and a little bit on copyrighting as well as a Seminar at ISS on copyrighting and this seems to be the way it works out.
I'd talk to a lawyer before you try to resell the artwork though. You are correct that the failure to pay breaches the contract and thus voids it, but not sure about the agreement to not re-distribute.. that might still be in tact.
technically you own the new digitized versions that you created, BUT that doesn't mean you can use them for reselling.. The artwork that you did the seperations for is technically your intellectual property as the client came to you and agreed for your to use their artwork to create a new artwork piece/image- the seperations.
Although you own those you can't use them for reselling.. I know that sounds weird, but that's pretty much how it works from what i know. I've taken a few courses on Business law and a little bit on copyrighting as well as a Seminar at ISS on copyrighting and this seems to be the way it works out.
I'd talk to a lawyer before you try to resell the artwork though. You are correct that the failure to pay breaches the contract and thus voids it, but not sure about the agreement to not re-distribute.. that might still be in tact.
hope that helped a bit.
-Scott Lewis
He only owns the modified artwork if the customer didnt pay to have it modified.
even that is a touchy subject. either way i'm sure he can't use it though for his own use.
-Scott Lewis
Yes even that is touchy. The customer submits artwork. Its theres even you tweak it for free. Cause your tweakin their artwork , not yours. The only way its artwork now is if they sold it to you , gave to you or sold you the unlimited rights to use it.
What a lawyer can try and work out for you is whether or not the work you did falls under work for hire. We can speculate about that until the cows come home, but none of our opinions about it are worth a damn.
If your work was considered work for hire, the client owns the copyright even if they didn't pay you. Legally speaking, they owe you money, but that doesn't mean you own their intellectual property.
If it wasn't work for hire, you own the copyright on the work you did for them.
It's a rather large distinction, and one that we cannot sort out for you. Whether or not something will fall under work for hire is actually a lot more complicated than graphic designers usually give credit to.
Likewise the implications of your verbal contract and whether or not you can go after the end customer (not a black and white issue) are best advised by a lawyer.
We try and stay away from these thorny legal issues, because no matter how well meaning we are we're about as likely to do harm as help you out. For something like this, we are not qualified to help you.
Again, I'd recommend pursuing it with a lawyer. Best of luck.
Can I use customers art? 
