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inkie · December 4th, 2007

Hi friends,

Need your help! Because I 'm still a real beginner at design software, I hired a graphic designer to be my "Photoshop guy" and make up a few of my designs for me so that I can use them on T's, bibs, mugs, etc. They are just about done and look great, but he wants to return them to me in "press-ready PDF." PDF is read-only. I want them returned in TIFF format, so that 1.) they will be editable by any printer or by myself for use in future projects and 2.) all of the printers, POD companies, etc. want TIFF, "original source files," JPEG, etc. but do NOT want PDFs in case something needs to be changed. I asked my designer who said it was not possible to return them to me in TIFF format because they contained work done in "vector and InDesign." (It's not an issue of ownership, he's willing, but obviously just doesn't think it is possible.)
My husband insists that he can return the files to me in ANY format I request, no matter what software he used, by using the "Export" function in Photoshop/Illustrator and just choosing "TIFF" from the dropdown menu. We need to call him ASAP. Are we wrong? Is he right?

Thanks, Inkie

JohnnyMo · December 4th, 2007

Generally speaking, I do most files for design/art in EPS format as it is "Vector friendly" and enables you to edit/resize, etc....

You can have him give you the print ready PDFs but ask him to also send along the EPS of the file. Your husband is correct in that he can give you a TIFF by just converting it in PS/ILL but the art guy is correct in saying if he gives you a TIFF that it will have to be converted to a bitmap as opposed to vector and will give you oproblems if you edit or resize. So though you can edit the TIFF they will not "resize" well and if you decide you need to do the logo larger for the back of a shirt and then small for a front breast you will lose the image clarity as it pixelates on resizing and may have to send it back to him for retouching, thus the reason he wants to send you a photo ready PDF. (If you need a bit more info on this, just do a google search for the difference between bitmap and vector images and you'll get the idea of why you want to use vector art as opposed to bitmaps.)

Hope that makes sense.

Good luck.

tim3560 · December 4th, 2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by inkie


	Hi friends, Need your help! Because I 'm still a real beginner at design software, I hired a graphic designer to be my "Photoshop guy" and make up a few of my designs for me so that I can use them on T's, bibs, mugs, etc. They are just about done and look great, but he wants to return them to me in "press-ready PDF." PDF is read-only. I want them returned in TIFF format, so that 1.) they will be editable by any printer or by myself for use in future projects and 2.) all of the printers, POD companies, etc. want TIFF, "original source files," JPEG, etc. but do NOT want PDFs in case something needs to be changed. I asked my designer who said it was not possible to return them to me in TIFF format because they contained work done in "vector and InDesign." (It's not an issue of ownership, he's willing, but obviously just doesn't think it is possible.) My husband insists that he can return the files to me in ANY format I request, no matter what software he used, by using the "Export" function in Photoshop/Illustrator and just choosing "TIFF" from the dropdown menu. We need to call him ASAP. Are we wrong? Is he right? Thanks, Inkie

I would have to agree with your husband. If this "designer" has any idea what he's doing, he should be able to send you whatever format you like. I used a designer that had Photoshop while I had Corel Draw. He got a copy of Corel Draw so that he could give it to me in my format. That's going above and beyond, but there should be no problem with giving you your files in TIFF if that's what you prefer.

AddVenture · December 4th, 2007

hi inkie,

i'm going to have to agree with your designer on this. he sounds like he knows what he's talking about. it sounds like he's not just using photoshop to create your designs. he may be using InDesign which is more of a layout/design program. many printers will accept "press ready pdf" files. i create them all the time for printers with no issues.

what you want, though, are the original source files. if he created the files with Adobe InDesign, get those files. i don't know who told you that you could edit the content of a TIF file, but you can't. it's a flattened, raster graphic format and does not allow you to edit the content. same thing goes for JPGs.

this is often how designers will work. they will hold the original files so they control the edits and thus continue to get your business. there is nothing wrong with this, it's a common practice. then they will provide you with print ready for your printers. he can definitely give you a TIF file, but don't expect to do with it what you think. if you request the original source files for your own, you better learn the programs so you can edit them yourself if that is what you want to do.

Okie_Solidarity · December 4th, 2007

Your designer may have an issue with color-separation. If he sends you the files in tiff format, the images will be flattened. If you have a design that has multiple colors, that means you have to re-separate the colors into their own layers, including the trap for line-up.

pdf's, on the other hand, can be sent and recieved in layers, so that all you have to do is print each layer individually. If you are interested in having a file that is easy to work from, and a file that is a high-quality universally readable file, I would request both pdf's and tiffs from your designer; show the customer the tiffs and work from the pdf's.

inkie · December 4th, 2007

Hi friends,

Thank you ALL for getting back to me so quickly on this! This obviously involves design issues of which we were not aware, but at least we are assured that there are work-arounds so that, yes, we can still get back some editable files, and that the PDFs are not as impossible as we first thought! We will be calling the designer shortly, and thanks to my "Buds" on the Forum, we have a much better understanding of where he's coming from.

Thanks,
Inkie

prometheus · December 4th, 2007

It may be an issue of being misinformed. Most designers work in the regular print industry (not shirt printing, paper) and don't realize that some screen printers may need the original editable files, (even though they are needed in the regular printing field as well, to some designers dismay)

Also remember that the PDF for the most part can be opened in Illustrator and changed into an ".eps" format. It is not a quick thing though and usually involves some issues with fonts.

sbremner · December 4th, 2007

We found a couple of years ago that an Illustrator file saved as a .pdf will be viewable with Adobe Reader, or any .pdf reader. However, if you open it in Illustrator, it opens as a native file, still using filename.pdf, but it's completely editable. Someone else mentioned about the layers in a Photoshop file staying intact, so just try opening it in Photoshop, but I haven't had that work for me yet; it usually asks me if I want to rasterize it, which, if you do that, you can then save it as the tiff you want. However, the tiff is not easily editable, as mentioned above. (Try opening it in Illustrator too, if you have it. Can't hurt.)

Steve

k1down · December 4th, 2007

I just wanted to point out that if my memory serves me (I haven't used indesign in over a year) InDesign will not save in the plethora of formats we've grown accustomed to in photoshop and illustrator. Since indesign assumes your using it because you want to make a multipaged document (the only reason i know of) it will only export multipage formats (ie. pdf and indd) but not ai or eps. Also, be aware, if you do get his source files in indd format, indesign is a real b**ch about opening different format versions. I had 3.0 refuse to open something that had been saved in a patched 3.01 version and also from 2 - 3 etc etc. Indesign generally sucks for anything not in house. Your gonna have issues with my experiences. When I worked in a digital print shop for 4 years, indd files were always my bane. Between fonts, links, versions (mac and pc wouldnt even cross correctly) indd sucks for most tasks. Try and get your guy to use photoshop and illustrator. They are not plagued by any of these problems and there is really no reason for him to be using indesign anyways.

AddVenture · December 4th, 2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by k1down


	I just wanted to point out that if my memory serves me (I haven't used indesign in over a year) InDesign will not save in the plethora of formats we've grown accustomed to in photoshop and illustrator. Since indesign assumes your using it because you want to make a multipaged document (the only reason i know of) it will only export multipage formats (ie. pdf and indd) but not ai or eps. Also, be aware, if you do get his source files in indd format, indesign is a real b**ch about opening different format versions. I had 3.0 refuse to open something that had been saved in a patched 3.01 version and also from 2 - 3 etc etc. Indesign generally sucks for anything not in house. Your gonna have issues with my experiences. When I worked in a digital print shop for 4 years, indd files were always my bane. Between fonts, links, versions (mac and pc wouldnt even cross correctly) indd sucks for most tasks. Try and get your guy to use photoshop and illustrator. They are not plagued by any of these problems and there is really no reason for him to be using indesign anyways.

all valid points. i've had similar issues with InDesign (Quark as well). but the fact is that if you want to edit the artwork your designer creates for you, for best results, you want to have the original, native file formats, regardless of what program was used.

inkie · December 4th, 2007

Hi friends,

Thanks for all these EXTREMELY well-informed and useful responses. There are some real experts on this Forum! It has been a real education just reading them. Now we have a much better understanding of what we can reasonably expect and request when dealing with a designer, and we can work these issues out BEFORE the work is done, not after!
After reading these responses, my husband did speak with the designer, and the designer is going to provide us with his "native files with links" in addition to the PDFs. Now we at least know what he is talking about!

Thanks again,
Inkie

Solmu · December 5th, 2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by inkie


	PDF is read-only.

No, PDF can be read-only. It doesn't have to be.

Quote:

Originally Posted by inkie


	My husband insists that he can return the files to me in ANY format I request, no matter what software he used

Sure, but but not if you want them to still be vector.

darwyn · December 5th, 2007

Here's a few more tips...

A PDF that was created in Illustrator will retain the editability of the original Illustrator file...as if it were an AI file.

The same holds true for TIFF's created in Photoshop. It will retain all layers and effects.

And unless fonts have been converted to paths (Illustrator) or rasterized (Photoshop), they will always be dependent upon the availability of the fonts of the computer opening them.

AddVenture · December 6th, 2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by darwyn


	The same holds true for TIFF's created in Photoshop. It will retain all layers and effects..

only if you save it with layers, which increases the file size quite a bit.

i never understood why you would save a tiff with layers when you can just keep the original ps file.

EternylStudios · December 7th, 2007

Get a new designer....A designer being paid should send the file in "Every and any" format requested, including a layered hires original.

the only issue would be if you approved a photoshop piece of art, and now you want vector version, well that would be an additional charge unless your happy with a crappy Live Trace, or have agreed to a vector file from the get go.

anything less is incompetent, or inexperienced.

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