My first venture I'm trying to set up is going to be printing football (soccer) related designs, and I've already found vectors of all the badges/emblems I need for some of the products.
But is this an infringment of copyright/trademark? Or is it enough to say 'This is 100% unofficial' as I've seen on ebay etc, or even from vendors who are free to sell outside of a team's stadium? Or if the emblem is altered slightly?
If what you are printing is someone else's logo/emblem without their written permission, then it is copyright infringement. And that does include saying that it is unofficial. The University of Kansas vs. Joe-college.com is a good example. Hope this helps.
If what you are printing is someone else's logo/emblem without their written permission, then it is copyright infringement. And that does include saying that it is unofficial. The University of Kansas vs. Joe-college.com is a good example. Hope this helps.
Many thanks.
How do people get away with it then? Especially the folk who stand right outside the clubs' stadium selling tees/flags/scarves that are totally 100% unofficial merchandise?
And do you think if you alter it slightly, for example take away part of the symbol, that would make it leagally viable?
"This is unofficial" is akin to shouting "This is a robbery!" at the beginning of a bank heist. It just announces your intentions, it doesn't legitimise them.
How do people get away with anything? When was the last time you witnessed someone committing a crime? (speeding, jaywalking, littering - happens every day). When was the last time you saw someone being arrested for a crime?
Quote:
Originally Posted by nealers77
And do you think if you alter it slightly, for example take away part of the symbol, that would make it leagally viable?
No, if it's "confusingly similar" it's trademark infringement. And by definition, if it's similar enough to be useful to you (i.e. profitable) then it's similar enough to potentially get you in legal trouble.
How do people get away with anything? When was the last time you witnessed someone committing a crime? (speeding, jaywalking, littering - happens every day). When was the last time you saw someone being arrested for a crime?
Just the other day actually!
And what I meant was, that sellers are outside the majority of football grounds in the UK selling apparently unofficial and therefore illegal, copyright infringment goods, while police officers, club stewards and club representatives just walk on by and let then make profit.
Plus, I've found websites today that actively do it. Just a case of how long you get away with it then.
Does anyone know if there is an easy way to check for registered trademarks/copyright? In particular UK members of the forum?
The reason I ask is, is it only the current version of a badge that is trademarked? How about an older, simpler version?
On this site the writer can post pictures of the older forms of the badge but not the current one - "to save us falling foul of copyright law we cant show you the new crest"
The more you know and understand copyright and trademark law, the more things you realise you can't legally do.
It's not uncommon to see all kinds of silly myths on websites (like "the old version is fine to use" or "change it X% and you'll be fine") because most websites are run by enthusiastic amateurs - not lawyers. For some reason people think this stuff is hard to understand, so they don't bother with it (it's really not).
As for selling outside of games... I don't know if the UK plod operate the same way as the US cops, but a lot of the time they are keeping an eye on the sellers hawking outside a game - they wait and actually nab them when they go back to their car to re-stock though.
Of course, on any given day the police may be more interested in stopping riots than arresting counterfeiters, so there's no guarantees anyone will be caught.
There are no easy ways to check for trademark and copyright registrations unfortunately. In the US there's TESS (for trademarks), Australia has an online searchable database, and I'm sure the UK would too. One problem is that it's text based, which often makes it hard to find images. That and the fact that it's not actually required to register your images to be legally protected, so just because you don't find anything doesn't mean it's public domain.
As a general rule of thumb, if you didn't make something yourself from scratch you can assume that it's protected by someone else's copyright or trademark. Very little is in the public domain, unless it's old (pre 1923 for copyright). Old versions are still covered; logos from before 1923 are usually still covered by trademark laws.
That's brilliant......well it ruins some of my ideas.......but that's why I asked on here first!!!
Many thanks for such a detailed response Lewis, I was convinced there might be some way around it but it doesn't seem worth the effort, fines or jail time!
Many thanks for such a detailed response Lewis, I was convinced there might be some way around it but it doesn't seem worth the effort, fines or jail time!
You're welcome. And yeah, no legal way around it I'm afraid. There are fair use clauses for reviews, academic writing, etc. etc. but not for commercial uses. You could try and get permission to print what you want from the owner, but obviously that's not a way around it
You're welcome. And yeah, no legal way around it I'm afraid. There are fair use clauses for reviews, academic writing, etc. etc. but not for commercial uses. You could try and get permission to print what you want from the owner, but obviously that's not a way around it
I think the cost of each licence or even the time spent mailing each club individually (20 teams in the Premier League alone) would out-way any rewards.
I think the cost of each licence or even the time spent mailing each club individually (20 teams in the Premier League alone) would out-way any rewards.
Given that they'll probably just rubber stamp it with a no anyway, that seems like a fair assessment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nealers77
Were you a copyright lawyer in a former life!?
I probably invented bureaucracy. Inadvertently I'm sure.
PS I'm a Gunners fan-I've always thought the same thing...How can these people knock off unofficial goods on the doorsteps of the co's that their infringing on? I suppose u do it til u get catch! Maybe I should sell my Arsenal T-shirts outside the Emirates!!! (NOT-ain't worth the hassle).
PS I'm a Gunners fan-I've always thought the same thing...How can these people knock off unofficial goods on the doorsteps of the co's that their infringing on? I suppose u do it til u get catch! Maybe I should sell my Arsenal T-shirts outside the Emirates!!! (NOT-ain't worth the hassle).
Thats fantastic Kevsta, cheers mate!
The Arsenal and Spurs (sorry!) badges are where I got the idea from....basically stripping the current designs down to what they used to be. In the case of Arsenal, just the canon, or with my beloved Everton, the tower and wreaths. Then use them to go beyond mini-kits for kids. Shame it's not going to work as the clubs don't seem to do what I came up with, and I reckon there would be a demand.
Football / Soccer badge copyright? 
