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daveb11 · April 20th, 2009

Yesterday while at my local mall I stopped in Zumiez and Pacsun to do some "research." I noticed almost 90% of the shirts in these stores were printed using plastisol. Companies such as Obey, Skin Industries, Enjoi, Famous Stars and Straps, Tapout, Volcom, etc. Some did appear to be printed using waterbased but the majority was plastisol. Meanwhile in the store Metropark(more high end like affliction, ed hardy etc.) there was a lot of waterbased and foils.

Granted these are two different demographics. Do people care more about the design itself or the feeling of the shirt? I know both play a part in a sale but which one should have the upper hand?

I plan to sell in the 25-30 range. I was so gun-ho on waterbased or extremely soft hand plastisol because I was under the impression it gave a better quality appearance but does it really? It seems more like people care about the design itself and may not care so much about the heavier print for a shirt in the $20 range..

splathead · April 20th, 2009

Design always comes first. If you asked 100 shoppers from the stores you listed what method was used to make the shirt they just bought, 99 wouldn't know, or care.

studog79 · April 20th, 2009

Design is ALWAYS what sells a shirt. The hand might prevent someone from buying but standing across the store and you see it, its the design that makes you walk over and look at it closer. There are many ways to use plastisol to get a very nice hand. Most companies use plastisol is because it is cheaper. Costs per print over waterbase is only a fraction of a penny but you can print plastisol twicw as fast as waterbase. Less misprints with plastisol and also less things to go wrong. That is why all those big companies use that type of printing.

daveb11 · April 20th, 2009

Thanks for the quick responses. I completely agree with both of you on design over touch, just wanted to get a larger opinion. Is there anyway to tell the difference between a heat pressed plastisol design and a screened one? I've read a few posts but nothing really gives a distinct answer. I'm assuming both done well can be very hard to tell apart.

For example, I have a volcom zip up sweatshirt and the plastisol print goes from left to right, crossing over the zipper. From the looks of it and from what I've read about screen printing difficulties over buttons and zippers, it seems to me like it was heat transferred using a pad to raise the area around the zipper. If that's so, that opens up an entire new world to how I've been trying to produce my shirts...

splathead · April 20th, 2009

You can screen print a zippered hoodie the same way using a raised pad on either side of the zipper.

It may have even been a cut and sew item. You can tell by examining the fabric around the design where it is sewn to the zipper. If the zipper thread is sewn over the printed design, then the screening was done before the sweatshirt was made. This is how a lot of these high ticket pieces are made.

Regarding transfers, many times you can tell the difference with a cold or hot peel transfers where ALL the ink is transferred from the paper. It leaves a smooth to the touch image.

A hot split transfer is virtually impossible to tell the difference. It splits away from the paper leaving some ink behind on the paper. This results in a rougher feel like you get with direct screen print.

daveb11 · April 20th, 2009

The writing is very smooth and it does not go under the "lip" of the zipper, simply passes right over it. Pretty much looks like it was pressed then cut with a blade to separate the two sides. Definitely not cut and sewn, most likely cold peel from your description.

Thanks for your responses Joe, always helpful!

BNFAEZ · April 20th, 2009

I too notcied this. But like what was mentioned. Most shoppers do not care how the design was made or how it feels.

I am curious as to where most shirts are made. For example if they are printed in China I am sure the markup is high. So when the companies choose what method of printing is it really to save costs? Or do they choose based on whats in?

junkel · April 20th, 2009

it all depends on the the weight of the garment ,, if you noticed some OBEY new burn out t shirts and SINFUL a swell are using water base inks , because anything else feels like plastic , and very low quality ,, people(kids) will buy it if they like it ,,,but plastisol is not really good for full body desings (gets too hot also) to save you some time by my experience. i tried many different plastisol tranfers even from companies that claim to have almost no hand to it ,, but no none of them deliver good results(desinger quality, average JOE bussines tee it migth be good).

if your desing is more than 5x10 and over sceems , i wil recomend not to use plastisol transfers,
is like puting a platic bag on the shirt.
use sublimation or wather base .
hope that helps

daveb11 · April 20th, 2009

My guess is cost is highly involved. They're printing shirts in the thousands. Let's face it these huge brands have such a large customer loyalty base that they can print however they like. They pretty much set the standard for the little guys...

Rodney · April 20th, 2009

Quote:


	Do people care more about the design itself or the feeling of the shirt? I know both play a part in a sale but which one should have the upper hand?

As was already mentioned, design comes first.

As far as your "average" end customer, most don't know the difference between plastisol or water based.

There's another type of customer that's a bit more savvy that will look for stuff like the feel of the design on the t-shirt, but I think unless the print is really bad, they really won't care if it's plastisol or waterbased, but they may prefer water based.

I think as a designer/clothing company, it's important to work with the printer to let them know which effect you're going for. Even if they only work with plastisol, many of them can still pull off a t-shirt with a very soft hand/feel using different ink types.

I think it really comes more into play when you have a lot of ink coverage on the t-shirt or as William said, when you're dealing with a lighter weight t-shirt.

BNFAEZ · April 20th, 2009

True. I used to be the most loyal FSAS customer, since 99. So you can only imagine how crushed I was when I walked into PACSUN that fateful evening adn saw a FSAS shrit on the shelf.

But it must be nice to own this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJZ7rEEzoDU

Solmu · April 20th, 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by daveb11


	just wanted to get a larger opinion

Print method is secondary to design, but both play their part.

Solmu · April 20th, 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodney


	As far as your "average" end customer, most don't know the difference between plastisol or water based.

Consciously, yes. But I think it's important to consider that a lot more goes into a purchasing decision than what a customer can name and understand, or even necessarily what they consciously notice.

A customer trying on an all-over print t-shirt done in plastisol probably wouldn't buy it. They may not be able to tell you why more than simply "the shirt was uncomfortable" or "it didn't fit right", but the outcome is the same.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodney


	I think it really comes more into play when you have a lot of ink coverage on the t-shirt or as William said, when you're dealing with a lighter weight t-shirt.

Definitely. Or for some design styles - there are certain prints that just won't look right in waterbased or plastisol respectively (for example, certain retro 80s styles just have to be done in plastisol, or they won't look right).

Random Obj · April 21st, 2009

Hot design(s) will make tees sell! Very few people are that particular about the printing method. I really do hate that stiff sandpaper like feel that many tees in the mall have though!

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