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[Article for those starting clothing lines] printing yourself versus outsourcing the printing to a screen printer



 
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Old April 17th, 2009 Apr 17, 2009 1:32:15 PM -   #1 (permalink)
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Post [Article for those starting clothing lines] printing yourself versus outsourcing the printing to a screen printer

I just finished reading this GREAT article by Seibei where he really breaks down what's involved in doing all the printing yourself (as a clothing line) or outsourcing it to a printer.

Check it out here: printing it yourself VS hiring it out | SEIBEI

For those who are getting ready to start selling their own line of t-shirts with their cool designs who are thinking of doing it all themselves, it's worth a read.

The article also covers what to know when or if you do decide to outsource. Seriously, just go read it

printing it yourself VS hiring it out | SEIBEI
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Old April 17th, 2009 Apr 17, 2009 4:18:42 PM -   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: [Article for those starting clothing lines] printing yourself versus outsourcing the printing to a screen printer

That is dead on. Thanks for sharing!
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Old April 17th, 2009 Apr 17, 2009 5:13:59 PM -   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: [Article for those starting clothing lines] printing yourself versus outsourcing the printing to a screen printer

Dead on.
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Old April 18th, 2009 Apr 18, 2009 7:21:00 AM -   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: [Article for those starting clothing lines] printing yourself versus outsourcing the printing to a screen printer

Awesome! This is something I am currently debating for myself right now! Thanks for posting Rodney
 
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Old April 21st, 2009 Apr 21, 2009 7:41:14 AM -   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: [Article for those starting clothing lines] printing yourself versus outsourcing the printing to a screen printer

wow, maybe i should have read this before i re-modeled my garage and spent $ on all my own equipment, however i do have a genuine passion for it so i'll try to be designer and manufacturer. (at least for a little while)
 
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Old April 21st, 2009 Apr 21, 2009 10:26:25 PM -   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: [Article for those starting clothing lines] printing yourself versus outsourcing the printing to a screen printer

Wow,I think I will be subing my work out rather me doing it now, good share and read
 
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Old April 22nd, 2009 Apr 22, 2009 2:14:42 PM -   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: [Article for those starting clothing lines] printing yourself versus outsourcing the printing to a screen printer

I would imagine getting caught up in the day to day printing end of the business would seriously hinder online growth of a T shirt design business. This article hits it right on the money for sure! It's pretty much one or the other with this business. Very good read.

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Old April 28th, 2009 Apr 28, 2009 10:03:59 AM -   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: [Article for those starting clothing lines] printing yourself versus outsourcing the printing to a screen printer

The advice below is for those interested in running a clothing line. If your first concern is money, then the advice may not apply. It's about what are, in my opinion, best case scenarios, not cheapest ones.

I agree with David's main point:

Quote:
Don’t learn to screen print simply because you think it will save you money on your professional t-shirt line. It won’t.
What David writes is true (and good advice for most people), it's just not the whole story. There are other reasons to do your own printing it's important not to overlook. I think it's worth taking a look at the flipside.

There are things those of us who print for ourselves largely take for granted that just won't be possible if you pay someone else to do your printing. Last minute changes, smaller runs, garment changes, colour changes, cheap test prints, etc. You can pay a printer to do some of this, but someone else will never offer you as many options on these things as you can offer yourself.

One of the smallest examples: you decide you want a certain Pantone colour for your ink. Your printer prints it. You realise it wasn't quite right. If you were printing yourself, it would be absolutely trivial to correct this as you go.

As David has documented on his blog, the transition from printing for himself to outsourcing comes with its drawbacks ("For example: the first print run of the Taco Dinosaur has completely sold out in almost every size. Typically, the instant something like this happened, I would order shirts and reprint it within a matter of days. Now? I have to order the shirts, put in an order, and wait two weeks. Of course, the logical answer is “plan further ahead”, so I’m trying to do that.").

On the one hand the organisation that this requires will have a positive impact on the rest of your business too, but on the other hand it means there are customer service options that are simply no longer available to you. You can't plan for everything, and the more that is under your control the quicker you can respond.

The product testing phase becomes longer/slower and more expensive. Usually the end result of this is less product testing. Which means if you don't get things perfect the first time, your brand's attention to detail will suffer. A small amount maybe, but some all the same - how much it matters depends on what your brand is shooting for.

Creative experimentation is part of the design process from the moment you come up with an idea (or even before) through to when the product is finished. The more stages of this process you are personally involved in, the more opportunity there is for creative intervention. It's (usually) better for your design, and personally fulfilling. As a printer you're more able to work directly with your film positive, or more directly even with the screen itself. For some styles this isn't even an advantage, but for some artists/designers this is a massive benefit (speaking of my own work, some of my favourite pieces were created with little or no computer aid - as a longtime computer nerd, I wouldn't have anticipated this before learning to print).

The advantage of outsourcing in this regard is that it encourages you to come up with a fixed idea more quickly, and move on to something else (i.e. the builder's house is never done principle). You're less likely to have a perfectly perfect product, but more likely to have a perfectly good product and time to produce another one.

The most important point is that there are options available to clothing lines that print their own clothes that simply aren't available to those who outsource. If you want to do short runs or have an absurdly quick turnaround for one (by absurdly quick turnaround I mean: something happens in the cultural sphere on a Friday night, and you have a market event scheduled for Sunday: on Saturday you can design and print a run of shirts in response to that event; on Sunday it's a quick sale, in three weeks it's old hat).

This is especially true if you like to come up with fiddly little ideas; things that aren't necessarily impractical to do yourself, but no printer is going to spend their afternoon working out how to do.

As far as Seibei goes, they actually provide the perfect example for this: the IZHL shirt. If Seibei had started out outsourcing from the beginning, there is no way that shirt ever would have been made. Given that that's the shirt that gave Seibei its first big break, it's plausible that that was the difference between success and failure.

Another small example: you have a cool design, it sells okay. You want to do a limited edition version of five shirts in gold foil to give away for marketing. If you have a good relationship with your printer, you might be able to work something out. If you are your printer, this is trivial. These small things add up; creative options are simply easier when you can implement them yourself.

If you want to reach your zenith as an artist or designer, you need to fully understand the medium you're working with. Do you want to be a good designer, or a great designer? The best print-designers are printer-designers. Yes there's something to be said for a naive insisting on the impossible attitude, but in reality the best person to implement the impossible is not the put-upon printer you contracted, but the person determined to make it happen (that would be you).

I'm not saying that any given printer-designer will be better than another designer, but what I am saying is if you are a printer-designer then all else being equal you are a better designer than the alternate universe you that never learnt to print.

I'm not saying that everyone should learn to print, nor am I saying that you're screwed if you don't. What I am saying, is that it's worth being aware there are fundamental benefits to doing so. If you're thinking about doing it, that would be why you should do it. Why not would be because it's time consuming, frustrating, and expensive.

Life is a series of trade-offs, and we can't learn everything we want to learn, be everything we want to be, or do everything we want to do. It might be better for you as a person, or for you as a business, never to learn to print. I'm sure I would gain insight if I sewed my own t-shirts, but I'm not going to go that far. It's the manufacturing process... that would be absurd! I pay better qualified people to do that for me! ...sounds just like printing, right? Right - it is. We all make tradeoffs, and you'll have to decide where the line is for your business.

It's also important to be clear that I'm not talking about learning about print, I'm talking learn to print. Despite what some designers would have you believe, they're not the same thing - the theory is not the practice. (Beyond learning, some of the avantages persist just by fully comprehending how to print, some of them only apply if you continue to print yourself.)

Learning about print is a good minimum, but the printer-designer will always have a slight edge over the designer. Why? Because there are little tips and tricks that we can't be bothered to teach you, don't think to pass on, don't want to pass on, or can't even really put into words. When it is second nature and you don't have to think about it, you waste a lot less time designing.

Money alone is the wrong reason to learn, it's just not worth the effort to save some money. It's fine as a day job if that's what you want, but I don't think that's what people are looking for. Most people starting a clothing line already have a job, plus the second job of starting their clothing line. You'd better be sure you want to be a printer before you go adding that third job to your roster - it's not like learning a bit of bookkeeping or dabbling in SEO, it's a whole extra job. If you don't have the passion for it you'll probably just burn out, and you won't immerse yourself enough in what you're doing to really experience the beneficial insights I'm talking about.

David is right when he says "In this business, there’s no room for people who aren’t awesome at something.", but I'd go a step further: there's no room for people who aren't awesome at several somethings. Printing doesn't have to be one of them, but it can be. If you're not going to be a printer, it's not enough to be a shrewd marketer. We all need to be that, it goes without saying. Find more than one talent, and be great at both. And the ones we all have to have.

As for printing as a hobby, personally I think dabbling in the craft of screenprinting while outsourcing your printing is a waste of time (for those who want to run a clothing line). It might be an enjoyable hobby, but as a hobby it's an expensive and time consuming one. If you want something creative that's going to benefit your business, you'd be better off taking life drawing classes.

I wholeheartedly agree with these points:

Quote:
you can only teach yourself so much through books and practice [...] while there are plenty of great printers out there, there are some pretty low quality prints getting sold out there [...] low quality prints make us all look bad [...] Accept that it will take a while before you can print something worth selling.
Quote:
I think a lot of people just don’t understand just how WIDE the gap between screen printing hobbyists and screen printing professionals is.
There are some people out there who are in way over their head. It's obvious to those who know what they're doing who they are, but we're powerless to say anything. It's frustrating. You know those stories we all read/hear about "My client went to the cheaper printer down the street, then came back to me when they screwed it up."? That guy down the street doesn't just stay down the street, sometimes he posts on forums or blogs, or goes to craft fairs - he's not anonymous.

On that note... if you do choose to outsource (and I think it's a perfectly valid choice) make sure you check the quality of your printer. Not everyone who haphazardly slaps ink on a shirt and calls themself a printer deserves the title.


I think I've been clear, but in case not: none of the above is a dig at David. I like David and what he does with Seibei, I read his blog regularly (have since 2006), and I agree with most of what he posted. There are hacks in our industry - David is not one of them.
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Old April 28th, 2009 Apr 28, 2009 10:04:12 AM -   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: [Article for those starting clothing lines] printing yourself versus outsourcing the printing to a screen printer

I cut this section from the above post because it was detracting from the main topic. I still feel it's somewhat relevant as it addresses some potential criticisms and counter-arguments. Consider it a footnote.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solmu
It's also important to be clear that I'm not talking about learning about print, I'm talking learn to print. Despite what some designers would have you believe, they're not the same thing - the theory is not the practice.
You may have heard otherwise. There are a number of graphic designers out there writing fluffy how-to articles about the clothing industry. A lot of those "how to" articles are little more than feel good fluff designed to appeal to people's emotions. Commercial blogging is a popularity contest, and if you want to be popular you can't say anything that might hurt someone's feelings. They tell people what they want to hear, because otherwise they won't get liked and linked to (and because they don't know any better). The blog industry is built on linkbait, and the first rule of linkbait is don't tell anyone something they don't already know. How many times have you got to the end of a widely linked blog article, felt good and inspired, then stopped and thought "Hang on... what did that post actually say? Did I actually learn anything?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by William Shakespeare
It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
That's a major advantage of more personal blogs like David's - the advice is a lot more sincere because it's not targeted at pulling in that kind of readership. I think David's post is heartfelt and offers some valuable experience and advice. But there are a lot of charlatans out there, and if a blog never does anything but confirm your own biases it's not doing you much good (as the saying goes if two people agree, one of them is redundant).

Blogs are not the sources of authority people give them credit for, I'd advise people to read them as critically as they would anything else (like this post). Everyone who writes advice has an agenda, and you have to be very careful who you trust. For example, my agenda (amongst others) is to encourage respect for printers, and to validate the life choices I've made as being the correct ones (the danger is I'd tell you being a printer is good whether it is or not, because it's what I do). A common agenda of graphic design blogs is twofold, 1) To gain revenue through increased name recognition, advertising flow through, etc., and 2) To convince themselves and their peers that despite their inexperience they are just as qualified as those who know more. The basic agenda is that what they don't know ain't worth knowing. I'm here to tell you that there's a lot they don't know, and it is worth knowing.

(obviously I'm getting sidetracked here, but I mention it all for two reasons, 1) because I'm getting tired of the fact that people automatically respect something more if it's written off-site, 2) because a lot of feedback will go into your final decision, and I want you to read it all critically - I assume your research won't end with these posts)
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Old April 29th, 2009 Apr 29, 2009 12:05:53 PM -   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: [Article for those starting clothing lines] printing yourself versus outsourcing the printing to a screen printer

but if you're doing all this do you really have time to run a clothing company to?

I have an article from Jimmy at print my tees and Heartcore Clothing about this that will come out in the next couple weeks. He had a very successful business then decided to print everything himself, he lost focus and his business started to go down. Heartcore was one of the biggest names it's day and now Jimmy is closing the doors to start a new clothing line.

Last edited by Solmu; April 29th, 2009 at 08:48 PM. Reason: removed post quoted in its entirety to ease discussion
 
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Old April 29th, 2009 Apr 29, 2009 8:47:08 PM -   #11 (permalink)
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Default Re: [Article for those starting clothing lines] printing yourself versus outsourcing the printing to a screen printer

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkruse
but if you're doing all this do you really have time to run a clothing company to?
Yes, at first and for long enough to get the company on its feet. Although you won't forever - at which point you can move to doing sampling and small production in house, and outsourcing large production runs (this is pretty much the best of all worlds, I'm envious of companies that operate this way).

"All this" does not take long if you have the training. All this and learning could be another matter; that depends on what your plans are with your life and your business. If you want to start straight away, maybe your desire to start straight away sets your course of action (i.e. outsourcing is the right choice for you). If its more important to you to run your business a certain way, then you take the time to learn to run it in that way, and then you run it. This is true whatever the skills you lack and feel you need to run your company the way you want are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkruse
He had a very successful business then decided to print everything himself, he lost focus and his business started to go down.
I'm not surprised - it's a stupid thing to do. Print for myself or outsource is a decision you need to make before you start the business. In the simplest terms, when you have a successful business, don't **** with it! If you already have a successful business, it's stupid to try and take on the printing yourself. Going in the other direction from printing to not can be a good idea (isn't always), or even a necessary step. Bringing it inhouse after the fact only makes sense if you're huge enough that that means buying the equipment and hiring a full-time printer (i.e. not doing it yourself).
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Old May 21st, 2009 May 21, 2009 11:42:57 AM -   #12 (permalink)
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Default Re: [Article for those starting clothing lines] printing yourself versus outsourcing the printing to a screen printer

I was also VERY lucky. I was given a 'trial by fire' into printing. my boss at the community centre i work at knew i was interested in it and we had old equipment. I cleaned it, fixed it up a bit and he ran through the process in about 20 minutes. I spent the next 2 weeks watching videos and applying the techniques. i am a quick study in anything so maybe i grasped it faster then others but it is an easy process...

PROCESS is easy!... Mastering it is HARD.

At times it can be very frustrating and stressful (especially if you are using old half broken equipment). but there is no better feeling then finally getting it right...lol

if you are just starting and dont have that much time or patience to learn somehting new and trudge along through all the hard times and issues then doing it yourself may not be for you. its really a toss - up for me... sorry
 
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Old May 24th, 2009 May 24, 2009 8:40:36 PM -   #13 (permalink)
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Default Re: [Article for those starting clothing lines] printing yourself versus outsourcing the printing to a screen printer

The read was awesome. My only question is does this apply to heat pressing plastisol transfers? I believe thats the route I would to take as I begin this awesome journey. As much as the article was on point for screen printing, I must agree with Solmu regarding having some hands on printing knowledge could be good.

I look forward to your response and I hope everyone is having a great holiday weekend. =)
 
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Old June 3rd, 2009 Jun 3, 2009 4:25:19 PM -   #14 (permalink)
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Default Re: [Article for those starting clothing lines] printing yourself versus outsourcing the printing to a screen printer

That first article printing it yourself VS hiring it out was very demoralizing. I have designed and hand painted shirts and wanted to move on to silk screen. The author made it seem hopless for new people. My first silk screen shirt had a mistake, but so did the first shirts I painted. I hand painted shirts and sold them for several years. Using the logic in the first article I should have given up or failed.

One person having success/failure in an area doesn't mean the other person will have the same success/failure.

When I was selling shirts full time I had people ask me how to get into the business. As a restaurant franchise owner I can tell you all business concepts are the same. You have to decided what you will be selling, who you will be selling it to, your financing, how you will get your inventory and buy your supplies wholesale.

I have shirt designs I want to sell. If it turns out I suck at silk screen I will move on.
Common sense has to kick in at some point. The person that wrote the original article spent a great deal of time and money on learning to silk screen but didn't say if the silk screen shirts paid the bills and allowed him/her to continue until the business was successful.

The article made me grumpy, because the author seemed to think everyone would have as much trouble learning a new craft as he/she did.

Everything other thing I have read in this forum has been positive and supportive without being unrealistic.
 
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Old June 3rd, 2009 Jun 3, 2009 8:40:34 PM -   #15 (permalink)
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Default Re: [Article for those starting clothing lines] printing yourself versus outsourcing the printing to a screen printer

Quote:
Originally Posted by losille
The author made it seem hopless for new people.
I don't really agree with that. I think David just suggested what he felt was the best/easiest path to success. If anything it should offer more hope because he's saying you don't need to spend time and money learning a new skill in order to succeed: you can just pay other people for their expertise and still make it work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by losille
One person having success/failure in an area doesn't mean the other person will have the same success/failure.
David never said that any one person's success or failure was indicative of everybody else's. I think you've chosen to take his blog entry personally for some reason, and are reading all kinds of things into it that he simply didn't say.

Quote:
Originally Posted by losille
If it turns out I suck at silk screen I will move on.
Hopefully if you suck, you'll know that you suck. As David says, many people are oblivious. All you have to do is walk through a craft market or graduate show to see that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by losille
The person that wrote the original article spent a great deal of time and money on learning to silk screen but didn't say if the silk screen shirts paid the bills and allowed him/her to continue until the business was successful.
He said right at the start of the post that he learnt as an employee in a screen printing shop. With that as his day job, he built the label until he could switch to running it full time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by losille
The article made me grumpy, because the author seemed to think everyone would have as much trouble learning a new craft as he/she did.
David was not talking about merely learning a new craft, he was talking about mastering it. Screenprinting, on a basic level, is very easy - I imagine David would agree with that. It's the little things needed to lift your game that are more difficult, and they're especially difficult if you try and teach yourself.

David has correctly observed one of the pitfalls that many startup labels have fallen for, and is offering his advice as a counterpoint to their mistakes.

David isn't a stupid person (he has a degree in Japanese literature for one thing... that's pretty cool ). Do you really think the problem is just that he hit some tough spots and now he's telling the world it's all too difficult?

He actually knows what he's talking about.

I think you've completely mischaracterised David and the blog entry that he wrote.

Quote:
Originally Posted by losille
Everything other thing I have read in this forum has been positive and supportive without being unrealistic.
Realism is entirely subjective. David's post may seem unrealistic or unsupportive to those who like their 'realism' with a generous coating of sugar, but personally I think it was actually an unusually realistic view of an industry that is often tackled with a supreme naïveté.

Don't make the mistake of equating "realistic" with "supportive" or "positive". If all you're hearing is what you want to hear then the warm fuzzies will hug you all the way to bankruptcy.
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Price of outsourcing Screen Printing??? drummerstar Screen Printing 2 December 18th, 2007 12:50 PM


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