In need of advice! - starting out, should we go straight to retailers? Which blanks?
Hello, I feel so lucky to have found this site. Many of my questions have been answered but I still need some feedback on my situation. I'm also not sure that I'm entering my message in the right place??? But here goes:
I am more into the business end of things and my partner creates slogans. We would like to start a business whereby we could sell our products (tee shirts, pet wear, mugs, etc) using our slogans. We want to sell to upscale boutiques, hotel gift shops, college students, political venues. I know that sounds like a wide range but we have slogans to fit each group.
We will outsource our printing.
I feel that we couldn't sell a Gildan 2000 shirt to an upscale boutique without re-labeling but we probably could sell the gildan label to a college student.
I want to take it slow and do some indoor flea markets to test the slogans but my partner doesn't want to do this. We don't have a lot of money. He only wants to make an initial investment of $2500.00 which I would have to match. I don't think that is enough.
I would like to do the markets because I'm in need of extra cash NOW! He also would like to make some extra cash but I have tried to tell him that selling to stores is going to be a lengthy process and we can't afford to go to trade shows.
We have already been to the attorney for trademarking and copyrighting which will cost $2200.00. (we have 3 trademark filings and one comprehensive copyright for slogans).
We can put together a catalog for not a lot of money. I don't know if we should just take a few shirts and hit the road calling on buyers. Does that make us appear to be amateurs?
If I did end up doing flee markets, festivals, or parades would that make us look bad in the eyes of buyers?
Today I took a look at some shirts in Nordstoms. All of their shirts feel like they are ringspun. Is this the best quality to use for the boutique buyers.
The gildans just seem to be good for corporate selling etc. What would be a really good brand of shirt for hotels and upscale boutiques?
I don't know if we are barking up a tree that will be a waste of what little money we have. We also thought we could take the slogans and put them on greeting cards.
Thanks to anyone who can help me.
I'm struggling to make ends meet
MJ
Re: In need of advice! - starting out, should we go straight to retailers? Which blanks?
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We have already been to the attorney for trademarking and copyrighting which will cost $2200.00. (we have 3 trademark filings and one comprehensive copyright for slogans).
Do you also have money in the budget for going after anybody that may try to take the trademark?
Not giving any legal advice, but that $2200 could go a long way with marketing a new line.
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I don't know if we should just take a few shirts and hit the road calling on buyers. Does that make us appear to be amateurs?
It depends on how much research you do and how you present yourselves. Lots of great topics here about dealing with retailers that can help:
Today I took a look at some shirts in Nordstoms. All of their shirts feel like they are ringspun. Is this the best quality to use for the boutique buyers.
I think so. A higher end shirt will cost more, but it will also give your products more perceived value. I think a ringspun cotton would be at the minimum of what you should be looking for.
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The gildans just seem to be good for corporate selling etc. What would be a really good brand of shirt for hotels and upscale boutiques?
We have a whole section of the forums for wholesale t-shirt recommendations. But if you do a search at the top of the page for american apparel, you'll find lots of info on that brand and related brands that are probably along the lines of what you need. You may need to do some sampling to find one you like. Continental Clothing, Article1, Alternative Apparel, epacificsports, Next Level Apparel, Royal Apparel, BareApparel are all great brands to try.
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I don't know if we are barking up a tree that will be a waste of what little money we have.
Have you considered focusing on sales to the end user first? Any reason why you want to start with retailers with an unproven line?
I think starting a website and focusing your marketing locally, nationally and internationally via your website and events can help you build up your brand. It can also show "use in commerce" when you go to register a trademark.
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I would like to do the markets because I'm in need of extra cash NOW!
I don't know if starting a clothing line will be the fix for that problem.
It can take time and cash and patience to start up a clothing line, build momentum, get the marketing going, etc.
If you need cash "now", you may find that starting a business selling t-shirts may be a frustrating way to go about it.
Not trying to be a downer, but the majority of businesses fail, so there may be more "spending" than "receiving" to start out with.
But with great designs and an even greater business plan, you definitely increase your chances of succeeding
Re: In need of advice! - starting out, should we go straight to retailers? Which blanks?
Hello Rodney, Thank you so much for responding. I'd like to address your responses if I may.
No, there is no money to go after anyone who infringes on the trademarks or copyrights. The attorney said usually the offender will stop with a cease and desist order.
When you said that ringspun would be the minimum quality, what other fiber samples should I send for?
I've only done 2 shirt orders. One for a school and the other for a company. In both these instances I've used S & S Activewear to buy blanks and I had them imprinted at Target Graphics. Are you familiar with these companies and if so, what do you think. Can I get as good pricing and imprinting somewhere else for less money?
What is your take on re-labeling? Is it worth the expense?
Thanks again. This is my first post so I'm glad you took the time to reply.
MJ
Re: In need of advice! - starting out, should we go straight to retailers? Which blanks?
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The attorney said usually the offender will stop with a cease and desist order.
Sometimes they will, and sometimes they won't. But if you aren't prepared to go after them (in the case of trademarks anyway), you run the chance of losing the trademark.
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When you said that ringspun would be the minimum quality, what other fiber samples should I send for?
I've only done 2 shirt orders. One for a school and the other for a company. In both these instances I've used S & S Activewear to buy blanks and I had them imprinted at Target Graphics
I'm familiar with SS Activewear, they are one of the bigger distributors. You may want to look into getting an account at AlphaShirt.com or TSCApparel.com. AlphaShirt.com carries American Apparel and Alternative Apparel. TSC carries American Apparel and offers relabeling.
Never heard of target graphics. Not that that's any big deal. There are probably 1000's of t-shirt printers around the country that I haven't heard of
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Can I get as good pricing and imprinting somewhere else for less money?
The only way to find out really is to ask. Just find some more printers and get more quotes. Then you'll find out which ones are competitive and who you might want to work with.
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What is your take on re-labeling? Is it worth the expense?
When selling just online, no. When selling to regular brick and mortar retail stores like Nordstroms, yes.
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Thanks again. This is my first post so I'm glad you took the time to reply.
Re: In need of advice! - starting out, should we go straight to retailers? Which blanks?
Hello again and thanks for your support.
I checked out those on line apparel blogs that were mentioned in the forum and I was amazed at the graphics. Our stuff is nothing like that. Our graphics are pretty much one or two lines, sometimes even one word. We're not using multi colors as we are trying to keep costs down. Ours are not artistic by any stretch of the imagination. So I don't think those blogs would even touch us. They'd probably laugh at us!
So you say that Gildan type brands are no problem to sell on the internet? That's good. It almost sounds as though we should go in this direction.
I'm still struggling with the whole trademark and copyright issue. It seems that it's a catch 22 situation.
Looking forward to your thoughts,
Thanks again,
I'm going to check out the sites that you mentioned.
Re: In need of advice! - starting out, should we go straight to retailers? Which blanks?
Hi Prepjerks, I guess we're both up at the crack of dawn trying to "crack" this case! Corny I know but as someone who is new and looking for advice I'm eager to move forward armed with the wisdom that I have been finding on this site.
Regarding the comprehensive copyright that I mentioned: We have well over 50 slogans which can be "bundled" for one copyright fee of $250.00. Our attorney told us to update whenever we had several to save money. Perhaps every quarter or so. Maybe comprehensive was the wrong word.
Let me ask you the same question that Rodney asked me: Would you go after someone who had infringed on your work? I don't think we could really afford to do that. I'm going to talk to my partner this morning and suggest that perhaps we do need to use the money for other things. I'll see what his thoughts are.
Also, if we do a website. What's the deal regarding inventory? What is the least amount of shirts we could have in our inventory. Remember we have a slew of slogans.
Re: In need of advice! - starting out, should we go straight to retailers? Which blanks?
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Any reason why you want to start with retailers with an unproven line?
Hi, MJ -
Is your partner also reading this thread? If not, IMHO he should be.
Beside all the excellent factual information he gave you - don't overlook Rodney's extremely important question. Right now, are you ready to answer ALL the questions that the retail buyers will ask you? If not, it won't be much of a sales presentation when you present your line!
I don't know if a state based trademark filing will hold up as strong as a federally based trademark filing.
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So you say that Gildan type brands are no problem to sell on the internet? That's good. It almost sounds as though we should go in this direction.
I don't think I said that You asked me if I thought relabeling was worth it and I replied that for online sales, not in my personal opinion (especially if a budget is tight)
I'm not a big fan of Gildan's myself. Other people swear by them. So you won't get any hard facts on the "best" t-shirt to use. It's all personal preference. I personally wouldn't sell my designs printed on a Gildan t-shirt. Other people do and do just fine.
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Also, if we do a website. What's the deal regarding inventory? What is the least amount of shirts we could have in our inventory. Remember we have a slew of slogans.
Remember that just because you have a slew of slogans doesn't mean that you will sell a slew of slogans or that you have to put all of the slew of slogans up for sale at once.
There's many different ways to handle inventory. You could carry 1 t-shirt of each size, you have them printed on demand by outsourcing through a DTG printer, you could buy a heat press and order custom plastisol heat transfers to apply the designs to the shirts as the orders come in. You could carry 4 of each size in each style, you could start with just 5 slogans and grow as the sales grow.
There are better threads that have discussed these things that can be found under the "start" link here:
Re: In need of advice! - starting out, should we go straight to retailers? Which blanks?
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Originally Posted by page
I checked out those on line apparel blogs that were mentioned in the forum and I was amazed at the graphics. Our stuff is nothing like that. [...] Ours are not artistic by any stretch of the imagination. So I don't think those blogs would even touch us. They'd probably laugh at us!
Sounds like you need to do some market research and work out who your target market actually is. If the blogs wouldn't touch your stuff, then the "upscale boutiques" won't either.
Your stuff doesn't have to be flashy, heavy use of colour, etc. but it does have to be interesting and artistic to get high-end retailers interested.
If all you're doing is slogans, then you can't have "slogans to fit each group"; some groups won't touch slogans.
You need to match your product to the right audience, and until you know who that audience is and how you are going to get them to buy your product, I'd be very careful about sinking much cash into it. If you're only discovering these things now, you haven't done enough research to start a business.
Re: In need of advice! - starting out, should we go straight to retailers? Which blanks?
MJ,
You're really, really all over the place. You need to focus on one thing at a time here. When you are just starting out, it's a good idea to sell to either the stores (wholesale) or direct to the consumer (retail). You can do both successfully, but it's difficult. You'll also need more funds to get started if you want to do both. Considering that you don't have a lot of startup money I would say pick one and stick with it for a while.
There are pros and cons with both.
Some pros of selling wholesale:
1. You don't print shirts until you have orders from stores - so you have much less of a chance spending money ending up with printed shirts that you can't sell, or shirts with slogans that nobody likes.
2. You can spend much less money on marketing (but you still have to spend some). The stores do their own marketing and sales so it will help you out.
Cons of wholesale:
1. Buyers for stores are much more picky than the average consumer. You need to seem professional and look like you know what you are doing. If you don't, they're not going to want to risk ordering from you. So you need to do a lot of research and make sure you understand how everything works with wholesale before you jump in.
Pros of selling retail:
1. You get higher margins. That means, for every shirt you sell, you make more money.
2. You get your name out there with customers faster (if you do lots of marketing). You get to understand your customer faster because you are interacting directly with them. This can help you make a better offering to wholesale buyers in the future.
Cons of retail:
1. You're printing shirts before you know for sure if they will sell or not. If they don't sell, you're stuck with them. It's a very good way to go broke fast.
2. You have to spend more money to get a place to sell your shirts, whether that's a trade show, festival, flea market (not a good pick in my opinion) or a good website. You have to either be there to sell the shirts (or hire someone to do that), so that takes away time from other things.
3. You MUST spend money on marketing. If you are selling wholesale, you are doing the selling directly to the buyer. If you're selling to a customers, you can't talk to every single one of them yourself, so you need marketing materials, ads, etc. just to get their attention.
I am sure more people can add to the list of pros/cons but that's what jumps to mind right now.
Generally, starting out with wholesale is less risky to start out with, but you need to do you research and really work hard to get buyers to take on your line. Nobody is going to find you by accident and just want to buy your stuff.
I would also strongly recommend you do market research as Solmu suggested. No matter how great you think your stuff is, not every kind of person in this world is going to like it - only a very, very small segment of the population. After you find out WHO those people are, you can target all your marketing efforts on them.
Also as others have mentioned in this thread, starting a business is NOT a way to make money fast. It's actually not uncommon for a successful business to only make enough money to "break even" (make enough money to replace what you spent) in the first year. That means it could be quite a while before you see any actual profit. If you are short on cash just hold off for a while, save some more money, and do some more research in the meantime.
Re: In need of advice! - starting out, should we go straight to retailers? Which blanks?
Everyone has made some very good and USEFUL points!
My suggestion would be to lay low, you and your partner do A LOT of research, and save your money!
Not to scare you off but I have helped start 100's if not 1000's of startup clothing lines and, unless you are well funded or have a lot of experience and connections, your chances of becoming succesful are very small. That's not to say that it can't be done on a small budget and not much experience but it's going to be a hard road with you not being able to realistically pull any money out of the company for at least a year. You have to keep in mind that you're initial investment along with any profit has to get rolled back into your prodcution costs. Invest $1000. Make $2500. Now you'll need to roll that back into whatever orders you have at hand as your company grows. At some point you'll be able to start pulling a salary from your company but if you are looking to use this as a means of making some cash NOW forget it! It will be a very shortlived venture!
Re: In need of advice! - starting out, should we go straight to retailers? Which blanks?
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Originally Posted by page
We have already been to the attorney for trademarking and copyrighting which will cost $2200.00. (we have 3 trademark filings and one comprehensive copyright for slogans).
Quote:
Originally Posted by page
Our graphics are pretty much one or two lines, sometimes even one word.
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Originally Posted by page
We have well over 50 slogans which can be "bundled" for one copyright fee of $250.00.
Hi Page,
You have another issue at hand to research. The following information is lifted directly from the copyright.gov website:
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Originally Posted by www.copyright.gov
How do I copyright a name, title, slogan or logo? Copyright does not protect names, titles, slogans, or short phrases.
Here is a link to the copyright.gov website. Please research copyright. One cannot copyright single words, short phrases or slogans. Find out exactly what you will be paying this lawyer for.
On the home page, click Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ), go to the second section called "What does copyright protect?", and go to the 6th question "How do I copyright my name, title, slogan or logo?".
There are also many good websites on the net that do a very good job of explaining copyright, what you can and cannot copyright. Good luck to you.
Re: In need of advice! - starting out, should we go straight to retailers? Which blanks?
Hi Kelly,
As you can see it's 3.21am on the east coast and I can't sleep. Too much on the brain. I'm fried! Thanks for the insight. I went to the US Copyright site that you suggested and read the info. I'm not sure what the difference is with what we're doing but I know that everything that we want our name on has to be "classed". By that, I mean, if we want to do tee shirts and hats we have to tell the government that we want to tee shirts and hats. Those come under class 25. Then if we want to put the same information on a mug then mugs come under a different class.
I'm glad I read the info which I forwarded to my partner. We will contact our attorney this morning to find out where, if any, we differ from what I have read.
We have an opportunity to test market our short phrase so we're going to do up some shirts, doggie tee shirts, totes and greeting cards. I want to do a few fleece blankets and head warmers but I'm not sure how silk screening will look on fleece. Would you know the answer to that? We were going to do hats but I found out you can't silk screen 6 panel hats and the ones I want are all 6 panel. If our test market works to our advantage then we'll think about embroidering the hats.
Thanks again for your advice. Hopefully I'll have some info in the morning. I'll let you know.
MJ
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In need of advice! - starting out, should we go straight to retailers? Which blanks? 
Re: In need of advice! - starting out, should we go straight to retailers? Which blanks? 
