Need some legal advice! Please help: using the image of a known car make
Hi everyone, this is my first post.
I'm having some trouble getting a straight, or at least somewhat definitive answer to some possible future legal issues (I've contacted 4 different copyright and trademark lawyers to no avail!).
It involves the use of automotive images. Now let me say first off that I obviously realize I cant go around directly using say the Mercedes logo (the spade), or the Porsche 911 font and name. But where is the line drawn with rendered or created from scratch designs?
e.g. Say someone draws an obvious Porsche 911, but it bears no real direct emblem (maybe the outline, very, very small if even noticeable) and no direct naming, is this legal?
I've seen some threads that say this is considered artwork and is okay. Some that have said photographing a car yourself then modifying it is okay. But what about artistically rendering or the likeness of?
Last edited by Rodney; December 13th, 2006 at 10:27 PM.
I can't believe that the lawyers couldnt give you an answer. If they couldn't give you an answer, you can sure as hell bet that nobody here can.
It sounds like you are in a gray area...you could get sued for doing something like that, but you could also possibly win a law suit.
Oddly enough, 2/4 lawyers said I'm walking a fine line. All of them said it's a huge grey area. They warned me to be cautious, but said I was right to worry about it. It's that fine of a line I guess. In fact, a few of them mentioned that if I were to go ahead with it, just start with some of the manufacturers that are a bit more supportive, like VW and Chrysler. Which I found to be odd advice from laywers. But they were all very nice.
Are you thinking of printing on demand, or getting a bunch screen printed. If you are printing on demand, there is no harm in doing it. You may get a cease and decist letter, and then you can just stop that design. .
Are you thinking of printing on demand, or getting a bunch screen printed. If you are printing on demand, there is no harm in doing it. You may get a cease and decist letter, and then you can just stop that design. .
Since I'm just getting into printing, I can't afford to on demand.
But I'm planning on limiting each design to 200. So, that would definitely alleviate much of the problem (I'd rather eat 200, than say 1000).
I think if you have a lawyer that you have paid for legal advice and they say they think it would be ok, then put the lawyer on retainer (or keep their business card), and give it a shot.
Like Jon said, if a lawyer couldn't help, we probably won't be of much help
You could always try asking permission. That could be an easy way to get a yes or no answer from the intellectual property owner (the car maker).
I know one of our members used to sell a VW t-shirt from his site. It didn't have a vw logo, but it was clearly a "bug" and he got a cease and desist from VW.
I think if you have a lawyer that you have paid for legal advice and they say they think it would be ok, then put the lawyer on retainer (or keep their business card), and give it a shot.
Like Jon said, if a lawyer couldn't help, we probably won't be of much help
You could always try asking permission. That could be an easy way to get a yes or no answer from the intellectual property owner (the car maker).
I know one of our members used to sell a VW t-shirt from his site. It didn't have a vw logo, but it was clearly a "bug" and he got a cease and desist from VW.
What it a photograph? A C&D from VW uhn? Wow, first time I've heard of such a thing. Usually their incredibly lax / supportive.
One of the lawyers said asking would be worthless as they'll just say "no" to avoid any problems or complications.
Re: Need some legal advice! Please help: using the image of a known car make
Working in the auto studios in Detroit most of my life I can say they hold their property very close. But, a car is an abstract, much like a flower is or a letter of the alphabet, which is public domain. I suppose if you use an actual car where the artwork is owned by a manufacturer you could hear from them if they don't like it.
Badging is also where you might get some feedback from the owner.
But then again, there's so much car stuff in this area the lines between ownership and public domain get blurry. If it's friendly to the car/company I'd print the shirts myself.
Re: Need some legal advice! Please help: using the image of a known car make
The design, likeness, car whatever you want to call it is the property of the manufacturer - look at the designs that are Ford Mustangs or Chevy whatever - they have the tacky "Officially licensed product" logo way to prominent in the design. Yes - you can draw anything you want to and sell that drawing - the trouble is reproducing that drawing and what you reproduce it on as well as how many. Ultimately the owner can and may pursue action against regardless of what your lawyer or any number of lawyers tell you - you may win in court - you may lose in court but you MUST weigh the decision in your own case. I am not advocating the "it's not wrong if I dont get caught" line and I'm not saying it's wrong (or right) - just be prepared to defend your decision in court. Anyone can pretty much file a suit against anyone for anything and Mercedes/Porsche/etc probably have more resources that most of us not to mention offices full of semi bored lawyers looking for something to do
This is a discussion about Need some legal advice! Please help: using the image of a known car make that was posted in the General T-Shirt Selling Discussion section of the forums.
Need some legal advice! Please help: using the image of a known car make 
