We just found out that a competitor of ours is printing stuff and obviously infringing on some major trademarks (owned by Disney, etc.)... Is there a way to tip off the Powers that Be?
I feel pretty strongly that blatant trademark infringement is not "playing fair." -- but maybe not everyone agrees. Your thoughts?
We just found out that a competitor of ours is printing stuff and obviously infringing on some major trademarks (owned by Disney, etc.)... Is there a way to tip off the Powers that Be?
I feel pretty strongly that blatant trademark infringement is not "playing fair." -- but maybe not everyone agrees. Your thoughts?
This is a tough subject for alot of people. There is injustice everywhere. Unless someone is hurting my family directly, I always feel it is best to Live and Let Live, here is why:
If the main true reason that you are upset is because they are your competitor, this you said, so you are competing over the same market, and they are getting the market/sales with their "techinique" which is a technique you would not do, so if you turn them in - they will have to stop, right? Is that the heart of the issue? Wondering if you "tell" on them, they'll have to stop and that will hopefully level the playing field?
It may stop them, but worse yet, and of course - maybe not in your eyes worse - it could put them out of business because of whatever possible legal costs/fines they may/will have to pay.
Think past the shirt competition you are in. Even though they are going about getting those sales in the wrong, and they decided it was okay to do that, there could be a bunch of little mouths to feed, people who are not making those decisions, that are depending on these people for food and shelter.
To level the playing field the way you have mentioned could have a detrimental affect on alot of people, and you'd be responsible for that. Sadly, really, your competitors would not be as responsible as you would for the first direct blow they suffer because if Disney doesn't 'catch' them, no one depending upon these people will ever be affected.
If Disney catches them on their own, which is really Disney's job, not yours, all will be right in your neighborhood again, and you'll have that relief. Whatever bad things happen to them and their families isn't laying at your feet.
Be careful in what you decide to do. There's more to life than selling shirts - regardless if you agree with their methods or not.
If your competitor is making strides doing things the wrong way, let it inspire you to doing even better than them while doing things the right way. Nothing can beat this feeling when you lay your head on a pillow at night.
Someone losing a livelihood could have deep reaching, very severe effects on their life. Suicide has been committed over business failures, we all know it is true. What if something horrible came of you blowing the whistle? If Disney's people do what they're hired to do, then you are free and clear of any responsiblity.
My advice, do better than them while maintaining your integrity and dignity. Also, you can send an annonymous letter letting them know your feelings to encourage them to stop on their own, without you turning them in.
Good luck - I know it is a tough spot you are in....
To level the playing field the way you have mentioned could have a detrimental affect on alot of people, and you'd be responsible for that.
Kelly, I could not disagree more.
If someone is breaking the law, whatever consequences results from that (food from their kid's mouths, losing a roof over their heads, or fewer vacations) is their responsibility and their's alone.
So, whatever the motive is for turning them in, whatever happens to the offender is their own fault, not the fault of the "whistle-blower".
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Sadly, really, your competitors would not be as responsible as you would for the first direct blow they suffer because if Disney doesn't 'catch' them, no one depending upon these people will ever be affected.
HUH? Yes, they would. Because if they didn't decide to do business illegally, there would be nothing to tell. Them doing business illegally would definitely be before someone could tell on them.
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Even though they are going about getting those sales in the wrong, and they decided it was okay to do that, there could be a bunch of little mouths to feed, people who are not making those decisions, that are depending on these people for food and shelter.
If they are in business, then they need to find another way (legally) to do business, if they want to provide food and shelter. Otherwise they need to be prepared to deal with the consequences of that.
There's no "right" way to do "wrong". If you choose to break the law in order to feed and clothe your family, then if someone turns you in and you can't do that anymore, it's not THEIR fault that you can't feed your family, it's your fault for choosing to break the law in order to feed your family.
There are lots of kids that depend on parents that break the law to feed them. Doesn't make it right. So if someone turns in a thief, drug-dealer, robber, etc., it's the offender's fault for breaking the law that there's no money for food anymore, not the person that turned them in.
So, Jen, I don't know exactly what your motives are. But I do know that if someone is stealing and breaking the law, then you have every right to turn them in, and shouldn't feel guilty about what they brought on themselves.
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Last edited by Comin'OutSwingin; December 17th, 2007 at 10:58 AM.
Thanks -- regarding "mouths to feed" -- the people involved in this particular company are high school and college students with large bankrolls. Honestly, I'm not sure if they even know they are doing something illegal. It's not as if Disney has a hotline for trademark infringement, but it does kind of gall me to see sites like theirs offering really cheap t-shirts that are just prints of other people's cartoon characters.
Thanks -- regarding "mouths to feed" -- the people involved in this particular company are high school and college students with large bankrolls. Honestly, I'm not sure if they even know they are doing something illegal. It's not as if Disney has a hotline for trademark infringement, but it does kind of gall me to see sites like theirs offering really cheap t-shirts that are just prints of other people's cartoon characters.
It is a bitter pill, and I do wish you luck in with the whole thing. They've presented a challenge one way or another. PS: Don't mind Greg and me, apparently we do this!
Infringing on marks hurts lots of people. Consumers, legit businesses, etc. People selling fake anything are taking money, food, from people that do things the right way.
I think there's a difference in being the "universe police" and doing something about infringing when you see it. Whether it's Disney, RocaWear, Nike, or someone on this forum that's getting infringed upon.
But, remember, this is a forum. We all aren't going to agree. I'll disagree with you, someone else will come along and disagree with me.
It wouldn't be a discussion forum if somebody got to say whatever they wanted, and no one could express their disagreement.
It lets everybody share their opinion, and hopefully we learn something, and move on to the next topic.
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Last edited by Rodney; December 18th, 2007 at 12:21 PM.
Reason: cleanup
I would say, considering the fact that they are younger and probably don't know better, you could perhaps find a way of bringing up their awareness of the matter without blowing the whistle. In other words, giving them the opportunity to do the right thing. Then if they stop, end of story, and if they don't, I would make Disney aware of the situation. At that point, it is no longer in your hands, and if Disney decides to take them full circle through the court system, that is theirs to decide.
I am trying to think this out logically and ethically, and that is what I would do.
I would add however in my own defense, that their age should play very little on their "ignorance" of the law, I was fully aware of the rights of trademark and copyright infringement when I was 8, nonetheless, they might be unaware of their actions, going through the common veil of "how am I hurting an international company by selling a shirt or two every now and then."
I have known many people who have honestly, and specifically copied other artist's works, and believed that they were in the right. Que sera sera, I suppose.
I do hope however that if what Kelly and Greg said is true, and you are looking for a way to level the playing field, that you realize blowing the whistle will not guarantee the result you expect. And in fact, could backfire in a terrible way. There is no greater fear in business than a competitor scorned. It's the old wounded dog theory, if they must fight back with a bruised ligament (wow, I'm getting to fit in so many metaphors today! ) they might bring blows to your company that you might not be ready for. Take it from me, I've seen it first hand.
I just want you to be prepared for the outcome, as Kelly said. And good luck to you.
If it was me i would be very frustrated but i dont think i would blow the whistle on them. i think Kelly is right when she said to consider all the people it will effect if you do choose. some people break the law and they know it im sure those guys now they are breaking the law by using disney's cartoons and simply are willing to take the chance and some people chose to be cops because they are angry at the fact that their getting away with but we are not cops. maybe if it were something along the lines of drugs or something like that but were talking shirts not to mention you say they are your competitor who do you think they will go after when they fing out someone turned them in, something else to consider before you make their decision. maybe you can write them a teling them what they are doing is wrong and maybe warn them of what can happen if they get caught. just tell them it's a friendly heads up.
Yea, like I said, they will definitely target the whistleblower first, and with a vengence. It's a tough call, but you have to look at what is ultimately best for your business. If you don't do anything, and they continue their operation, are they affecting your sales or bottom line? Only you can answer that, we would be merely guessing. If you stop them, do you believe that will actually boost your business?
I know alot of people will disagree, but if you take out a single strength of a competitor, it doesn't always automatically mean you are adding to yours. I assume since they are a "competitor" of yours and you don't engage in the infringement deal, they are selling something other than the Disney designs. Well, if you cut out their ability to sell those, that might lead to their decision to focus all their energy on their other lines-ie, the same products that you are carrying. Which means, that might actually hurt you more than if theyt just continued to carry on as it were.
Only you can decide which outcome would be best for YOUR company in the long run.
I don't see it as a "let me do what's best for my company" type of thing.
Infringing hurts everybody, especially the consumer. I appreciate companies like Disney going after those that infringe upon their mark, and would encourage others to do the same with their mark.
If someone was stealing my intellectual property and profiting from it, I would certainly want to know. The fact that these people are stealing from Disney makes no more difference to me than if they were stealing from 1 of you and I knew it. It's wrong and it's illegal.
From that standpoint I'm not going out everyday actively looking for it, but I'm going to report it when I see it, whether the people doing it are my competitors or not.
Also, if the OP does "turn them in" there's absolutely no way for the offenders to know that it was the competition that did it to them.
As I stated before, Disney is aggressive with this type of stuff. They actively look for it. Anyone that these people sell to could get the word back to Disney. They may have already been told on.
Only the OP can do what's best. But I say there's no harm or detriment that could come from making an anonymous call.
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Last edited by Rodney; December 18th, 2007 at 12:22 PM.
Reason: cleanup
Let me clarify -- they are a "competitor" in the sense that they sell to the same markets and advertise in the same venues. Our designs are totally different, but our target audience is similar.
I assume since they are a "competitor" of yours and you don't engage in the infringement deal, they are selling something other than the Disney designs. Well, if you cut out their ability to sell those, that might lead to their decision to focus all their energy on their other lines-ie, the same products that you are carrying. Which means, that might actually hurt you more than if theyt just continued to carry on as it were.
Only you can decide which outcome would be best for YOUR company in the long run.
OMGosh, I think this is the most well rounded post in this thread. Cudos to you, Anthony, you can really wrap your head around a business situation.
What a thought process. To end up theorizing the copyrighting is good for the OP as it keeps the college kids busy and away from the main line of work they share is brilliant business strategy.
Again, until analyzed to the end result, you cannot judge a book by its cover. Great strategic thinking. Haha!
There are some people who will blow a fuse soon I believe. I'm going to cook dinner and not come back to this thread, haha.
Manny, I agree with you as well, as you can read from my posts. I would move cautiously througth that decision process being in the OP position.
I wouldn't snitch. If they are making lots of money from the designs then they will draw attention and get caught all on their own. If they are not making money, how much of a threat can they be? It's just bad business to use tactics like that to try and run your competitors out.
When APPLE came out with the $600 phone last year, some 16 yr curly haired kid hacked the phone and figured out how to make it work with other networks. He then sold the phone on Ebay. It made headlines. Europe's market still was closed out as the network APPLE uses, AT&T - I believe - wasn't supported there.
When APPLE was interviewed on the subject they were asked if they were going to re-write the ?programming or chip, whatever this 16 yo kid hacked? and they said, NO. Their stand was that the vast majority of people cannot do the hack job, they had seen the instructions (the info was even for sale) and figured only a small percentage of people could pull it off. They also noted some of the desireable features consumers will want in the phone are lost when hacked, so to spend R&D money was not warranted for how little they would be affected by this overall.
Point is, not all companies "always" care about "every single time" something happens. Depends on how much it hurts them and how largely they are affected.
This kid just hacked their new baby and opened the European market before they officially did. They didn't care in the sense that they took no action, in fact - google it, it was headline news and they said, they take a pass on action as the action would be more costly than the loss.
Last edited by Girlzndollz; December 17th, 2007 at 03:55 PM.
Competitor infringing on trademark 
) is their responsibility and their's alone.
