was reading over the threads regarding webhosts and one of the sites that got mentioned was Thinkhost.com.
I want to warn anyone who is considering Thinkhost.com as their webhosting provider that their customer service and terms of service leave much to be desired.
I purchased their "Plan" and prepaid for 2 years of service under the impression that they would honor the 120 Day Guarantee listed as a sales point on the website. Once activated, I found that their service was no where near the level of robustness or polish that I needed to do business. I contacted customer support on the 2nd day of my service and asked for a refund.
I expect that they will reject my refund request even though by their own advertising they need to meet 100% uptime which they currently do not.
Here's what transpired:
Quote:
Hello,
I'd like to cancel my account under the 120 guarantee and get a refund of my fees. While I think the idea behind Thinkhost is great, I'm not convinced your current structure will fit my needs as webhost reseller and ecommerce merchant. I'd be willing to look at your company again for my needs in the future but currently I do not think your sevices are the right fit my company.
Please refund my credit card and cancel my service with Thinkhost at this time.
STAFF Posted On: 26 Jun 2008 08:43 AM
> I'd like to cancel my account under the 120 guarantee and get a refund of my fees. While I think the idea behind Thinkhost is great, I'm not convinced your current structure will fit my needs as webhost reseller and ecommerce merchant. I'd be willing to look at your company again for my needs in the future but currently I do not think your sevices are the right fit my company.
Thank you for contacting us regarding your account. We
tremendously value your business and would like to know
what it would take for us to keep your account.
Would you let me know what we'd need to do in order to keep
your business? If you still want to close your account, let
me know and I can send the cancellation form.
Please note that we do not, however, offer refunds except in
cases where service is not as advertised, so no refund will
be issued.
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THINKHOST STAFF
Posted On: 26 Jun 2008 12:23 PM STAFF,
I'm not understanding you. Your website clearly says there is a 120 day money back guarantee. I am asking for a refund on the second day of my account being active because your services do not match the level of robustness or polish that I want to sell to my customers.
Your script installation system is not friendly to inexperienced users.
Your DNS manager is down and has no ETA for restoration.
Those two issues are enough for me to not be able to use Thinkhost in the manner I need to.
Please explain why you will not refund my money because I do not think I deserve that type of treatment from your company. Had I been able to see the level of integration of your script engine or known that your DNS manager had been down for over 30 days and had no ETA for restoration, I would not have bought your service.
THINKHOST STAFF Posted On: 26 Jun 2008 01:06 PM
> I'm not understanding you. Your website clearly says there is a 120 day money back guarantee. I am asking for a refund on the second day of my account being active because your services do not match the level of robustness or polish that I want to sell to my customers.
Thanks for your follow-up. I will be happy to clarify the issue for you.
Our 120 day money back guarantee states that "if at any point during the first 120 days of your stay with us you find our services to be in any way not as advertised, we will refund all fees charged, less any setup and domain registration fees."
So please specifically cite the place on our site where we advertise something that is not correct, and we will be happy to issue a refund.
We invite you to review the terms of the agreement again, as it will very much clarify what we promise to deliver, and it will be very clear that we have strictly held up our end of the agreement.
Thank you!
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THINKHOST STAFF
Posted On: 26 Jun 2008 01:18 PM STAFF,
Your webmail interface is down and there is no ETA for return. Your website says you offer webmail and right now you clearly cannot meet that service level requirement.
Please issue my refund right away.
Thank you,
While I might not come out on top in this scenario, I wanted to let anyone who was considering Thinkhost.com see what I was going through and decide if this is the kind of company they want to do business with.
Last edited by Rodney; June 26th, 2008 at 12:32 PM.
Reason: removed customer service reps name and removed graphics linked to from thinkhost.com
I was really taken in by the idea of a company focused on making technology for friendly to the environment.
Apparently, I am not the only one with this exact same experience or worse.
Edited:
Just got my most recent response and added my reply.
Quote:
STAFF Posted On: 26 Jun 2008 01:40 PM
> Your webmail interface is down and there is no ETA for return. Your website says you offer webmail and right now you clearly cannot meet that service level requirement.
Thanks for your follow-up. I am sorry, but that is not a reason for refund. If we would *advertise* webmail, and then you would find out that we *do not have* webmail, that would certainly be a reason, but we do *have* webmail and we are working on fixing it as soon as possible.
As explained in our Terms of Service ( Web hosting service agreement - ThinkHost ), refunds are not issued in all quality of service (ie uptime/stability/availability) issues."
All issues of unavailability or downtime do qualify for hosting credits under our Uptime Guarantee
.. but not for a refund, and I would be happy to offer you a service credit of 3 months for the problems you had with your account (well in excess of our written guarantee!).
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STAFF
Posted On: 26 Jun 2008 01:50 PM STAFF,
It is pretty clear that you do not want to honor your 120 day advertising line and are just looking for ways to refuse my refund. Why would I want to extend my hosting time with your company if your company does not provide the service level I need?
This is not good customer service and this is not a good way to earn positive word of mouth.
I indicated specifically that I was planning on revisiting your service in the future to see if your company would fit my needs. Your actions have only proven that Thinkhost is more concerned with gathering fees as quickly as possible and is not concerned with how that goal is reached.
For a company that bills itself as progressive and responsible, I have found my entire experience with Thinkhost.com to be reminiscent of stereotyped used car sales.
I do not want to host with Thinkhost.com and am entitled to a refund as your 120 Guarantee with 100% uptime has not been met. Please escalate this ticket to your next level of support, or if there is no next level please put me in contact with your superior or manager.
Last edited by Rodney; June 26th, 2008 at 12:33 PM.
Reason: removed thinkhost reps name and thinkhost graphics
Their terms of service explain how the 120 day guarantee works. You agreed to those terms. Now you don't like those terms and want a refund that doesn't fit those terms.
I don't have any problems with thinkhost, and although their control panel is not "cpanel", I wouldn't call it not "robust" or "unpolished". I can see how it may not fit all needs, but I think it can still fit the needs of many who are looking for a webhost that is trying to think progressively towards preserving the environment.
I'm just starting out with them, so here's hoping that I don't have the same experiences that you and the other reviewers had on that webhostingstuff.com site.
I really wanted to just test out a new shared webhost for one site, so if it doesn't work out, I have no problems moving that particular site to my own servers.
I strongly believe everyone needs to make their own decision about who they want to do business with and this entire thread is just to provide more information for those choosing a webhost.
Maybe this level of service is worth the price to some but I think it was a bad purchase.
Quote:
STAFF Posted On: 26 Jun 2008 02:26 PM Hello,
> It is pretty clear that you do not want to honor your 120 day advertising line and are just looking for ways to refuse my refund. Why would I want to extend my hosting time with your company if your company does not provide the service level I need?
Thanks for your follow-up. I am in no way "looking for ways to refuse my refund". Our Terms of Services are quite clear about refund process, I am just quoting our ToS.
> I do not want to host with Thinkhost.com and am entitled to a refund as your 120 Guarantee with 100% uptime has not been met.
I am sorry, but you are wrong here. We make two very distinct promises to our clients:
- we promise that what is advertised will be delivered, and if not, we will fully refund your money -- ie we guarantee that our
advertising (which includes the Terms of Service) is absolutely true.
- we promise that our services will be consistently working, and if they are not, we will credit your account for any downtime.
The two promises do not overlap. Outages and/or service unavailability are specifically covered by the uptime guarantee (which results in a service credit) while the money-back guarantee very specifically excludes any downtime or quality of service issues.
These promises are very clearly outlined in the contract (Terms of Service) to which you agreed at the time of your signup. We are strictly holding up our part of the promise and have credited your account, but we also ask that you hold your part of the promise in paying for the services which you purchased.
We invite you to review the terms of the agreement again, as it will very much clarify what we promise to deliver, and it will be very clear that we have strictly held up our end of the agreement.
> Please escalate this ticket to your next level of support, or if there is no next level please put me in contact with your superior or manager.
All tickets are reviewed by our managers, but we do not escalate tickets to them. I am happy to assist you in any way, but I am not allowed to escalate tickets as I am fully empowered to assist you.
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STAFF Posted On: 26 Jun 2008 02:32 PM STAFF,
This entire issue has left a terrible impression on me regarding Thinkhost.com.
I sincerely hope you and your company feel it was worth my fees to create hostile situation and turn a possible future customer into a disgruntled one.
Last edited by Rodney; June 26th, 2008 at 12:34 PM.
Reason: removed thinkhost reps name and linked graphics
As a matter of opinion, you think Thinkhost is 100% upfront? I don't think so and I have never run into issues like this with 1and1, Hostgator, Lunarpages.
Gotta love this final reply from them, but I guess it falls in line with what you are saying.
Quote:
> This entire issue has left a terrible impression on me regarding Thinkhost.com.
Thanks for your follow-up. We firmly stand behind our services, and we always do what we promised. It seems to me that the culprit of the issue is that you haven't read our Terms of Services thoroughly. I am sorry, but that it your fault, not ours.
--------------------
STAFF
Last edited by Rodney; June 26th, 2008 at 12:34 PM.
In my opinion, [the thinkhost staff member] is wasting his time over this matter. He should just refund your money and get on with his business---spend the time fixing the problems.
This is a classic example of just letting the customer be right. The negative PR will haunt Roman and certainly cause him business losses in excess of your refund. He is more concerned with the letter of the law of the service agreement than with his customer's satisfaction. He's more concerned with the agreement than with the problems you mention. He appears to be one short sighted dude.
Good customer service and no hassle refunds are virtues of so many highly successful companies.
Last edited by Rodney; June 26th, 2008 at 12:35 PM.
Reason: removed staff members name
As a matter of opinion, you think Thinkhost is 100% upfront? I don't think so and I have never run into issues like this with 1and1, Hostgator, Lunarpages.
Gotta love this final reply from them, but I guess it falls in line with what you are saying.
I think they are sticking to their TOS what they posted on their site.
I agree that LunarPages may have better customer service (I usually recommend lunarpages when people ask about which shared webhost to use).
However, as the guy pointed out, they have the language clearly stated in their TOS and they followed it.
The TOS seems to read differently than you expected it to mean when you saw the 120 day guarantee badge, and that can cause confusion.
Some companies would decide to change their TOS or just give in and credit the refund in the name of customer service, thinkhost had decided not to do that. That is their right as a business as long as they are following the terms that they set (even if people don't agree with the terms after the fact).
I agree with parkwood that this can give thinkhost negative PR, but some companies are fine with that as long as they are following their terms.
Now to decide if I'll cancel with them or build a site on their service and hope that the customer services issues don't reflect on their networking proficiency.
While I still feel the TOS and advertising information don't jive, I think this is more a demonstration of the level of trust you endow a webhosting company when you sign on with them. Even Hostgator says the same thing about refunds at their discretion but to be honest, I've never had a reason to request one from them.
Even Hostgator says the same thing about refunds at their discretion but to be honest, I've never had a reason to request one from them.
I think the reason you're requesting this refund may be at issue here as well.
Originally you said you wanted a refund because the level of "robustness" and "polish" wasn't what you were expecting.
It seems a bit weird to hold a third party responsible for the expectations you have in your head without checking to see if they can meet those expectations first. Maybe a one month trial, or a few emails to sales before you sign up to see if the service meets your needs. Communication goes both ways.
It's a bit like getting mad at a screen printer because they can't with print water based inks even though you never told them that's the kind of printing you were expecting.
I think the reason you're requesting this refund may be at issue here as well.
Originally you said you wanted a refund because the level of "robustness" and "polish" wasn't what you were expecting.
It seems a bit weird to hold a third party responsible for the expectations you have in your head without checking to see if they can meet those expectations first. Maybe a one month trial, or a few emails to sales before you sign up to see if the service meets your needs. Communication goes both ways.
It's a bit like getting mad at a screen printer because they can't with print water based inks even though you never told them that's the kind of printing you were expecting.
While the length of time I purchased might be an issue, I don't think it is irresponsible to buy a service and "kick the tires" and then exit if the service does not match your needs.
Even on that note, if they wanted to prorate me 2 days or a month that would have been acceptable.
Instead, upon finding out that:
1. Their home grown version of Cpanel/Fantastico would scare away my clients,
2. Their DNS manager was down and had no ETA for return,
3. Their webmail client had gone down when I tried to access it and it wasn't until today that the status page was updated
I decided those are too many issues in such a short time to let go and base my business on.
I disagree with the physical good vs service argument. Physical goods cause loss of inventory or waste on the part of the provider if not accepted by the client. Services are created and used on demand. If I do not use the service, there is no loss to the provider. In this case I even paid for services not yet rendered.
I'm not saying I didn't make a mistake in choosing to do business with Thinkhost.com
If there is any ambiguity about that in my post, let me clear it up now. Caveat Emptor, I am unhappy because I didn't clarify my interpretation of the TOS and guarantee with the company.
I do think this was handled poorly and that the advertising and TOS are designed to lead people into a bad situation.
I posted up my conversation with their rep omitting only my name to prevent "he said, she said" from entering the picture. I don't expect public opinion here to get my money back or get me any kind of satisfaction other than knowing if I can make a mistake like this, it is completely possible others could too and this post might prevent that.
If I do not use the service, there is no loss to the provider. In this case I even paid for services not yet rendered.
Just because there is no physical product doesn't mean there is no loss. Remember the old addage, time is money. Employees, servers, provisioning, software, all has a cost that is included in their service fee.
But my main point with my analogy is "communication". If you don't tell the printer (or the webhost) what you need and expect out of their service, then it's a bit unfair to ask them them to meet your expectations. If they don't know them, how can they meet them or even tell you that they may not be able to meet them?
Quote:
I don't think it is irresponsible to buy a service and "kick the tires" and then exit if the service does not match your needs.
I don't think so either. That's exactly what I did. Bought their service to kick the tires and see what I thought.
But I also sent emails beforehand and read through the site backwards and forwards before giving them my money.
If I was looking for a cpanel host, I wouldn't have signed up with them. I would have signed up with lunarpages. The DNS manager seems to be working fine at the moment, if it's the same thing I think you're talking about. You can add new sites/domains and manage through their online interface.
I'm not saying that I would recommend thinkhost to all my friends and family or that their TOS wording and 120 Day Guarantee badge isn't confusing for some, I'm just saying that in this specific case, I can see where they are coming from.
There are some more alarming stories on the webhostingstuff.com reviews (and some that could be user error), but for my own needs, they are working fine.
I don't see the purpose of this host locking an irate customer in over the situation. I could understand if this was day 119, or day 90, or something of the relationship, as there's a certain subset of people that just want things for free. Instead, it's a customer who's been there for two days, and is already upset at the service.
I'm unsure what all this company does, but if they purchased domain names and such, I would at least attempt to come to a compromise to cover the expenses. Is it so hard for a company to compromise anymore?
"We are sorry that you did not find our services up to your standards, even though we are within our agreed terms. We strive for perfection, however we also realize that nobody is perfect. We would like to work this out with you, however if you believe we are not the company for you, we would like to compromise. We have spent $20 of your initial investment to register your domain name for two years. If you should choose to no longer be our customer, we would like to be reimbursed for this amount and in return we will relinquish ownership of the name over to you. Should you wish to continue your endeavors this name will be vital to you and your success. The remainder of our agreement will be refunded in full"
Of course, $20 is a bit much for a domain for two years, but I'm sure they'll claim a higher expense than what was actually incurred to help cover the time.
In my company, I wouldn't want to lock an angry customer into my services for two years on the second day of me providing services for them. I'd be looking to sever the tie and part ways amicably, before I end up having them waste my time and energy while trying to find every possible loophole to break the agreement and harm my company. There's no sense in making someone go out of their way to hate you, especially since the Internet's not a warm fuzzy secure place.
P.S. One of the things I learned working as an employee and manager was to let people go up the chain of command. When people are angry, they tend to take that anger out on the first individual they meet. The second individual they're more likely to come to agreements with, doesn't matter if that second person has more power or not. This is a vital part of the whole "empowering your employees". One time I was low on the totem pole at a company, I dealt with a customer the Store Manager couldn't appease, customer was venting on the Manager, I intervened. Even though I was technically lower on the totem pole, they were able to deal with me a lot better. They got the emotions out of the way and came back to the store multiple times afterwards. That's not to say that job title doesn't mean anything, but that in some situations it's better to just pass it along to another individual.
Last edited by joeshaul; June 26th, 2008 at 12:44 PM.
Reason: added the P.S.
Just because there is no physical product doesn't mean there is no loss. Remember the old addage, time is money. Employees, servers, provisioning, software, all has a cost that is included in their service fee.
Which is why I think a prorate would have been fair and reasonable solution.
Think twice about Thinkhost.com 
Re: Think twice about Thinkhost.com 
