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Rodney · June 5th, 2008

I signed into eBay today and I got saw a little notice that says buyers can no longer receive negative feedback from sellers.

That's an interesting move for ebay.

Buyers can leave positive, negative of neutral feedback for sellers, but sellers can only give out positive feedback to buyers.

They said it's to build buyer confidence and lessen the fears of "retaliatory feedback" (which actually makes sense)

What do you think?

Upcoming Changes to Feedback

Quote:


	No negative or neutral Feedback for buyers The previous system prevented buyers from leaving honest Feedback since they feared retaliation from the sellers if they left a negative. This made it harder for buyers to distinguish between sellers while making bidding or buying decisions. In addition, when buyers received negative Feedback, they reduced their activity in the marketplace, which in-turn harmed sellers.

UglyCook · June 5th, 2008

I think that's extremely appropriate! I certainly hesitate after my experience. I received a skirt that stunk to high heaven and I left a neutral comment and received a negative rating in response, even though I paid 2 minutes after the auction ended.

raise · June 5th, 2008

As a buyer and seller on Ebay, I'm actually in favor of this. While Ebay started out as a place where the power balance needed to be even between the buyer and seller, I think it has evolved into a system that requires the more power be given to the buyer.

Watching auctions come up with .01 prices and $25.00 shipping and knowing that the seller was only responsible for refunding .01 was silly. The addition of reporting excessive shipping and handling fees was a fix but it just underscored that sellers on Ebay were willing to use shipping delays and anonymousness to seriously discourage buyers from getting fair value on the agreed upon prices.

Large sellers were also in the position to be able to bully consumers using feedback. A single negative against 1000 feeback didn't hurt the seller much but a retaliatory negative against a 25 or even 100 feedback buyer made them look unattractive to other sellers.

debz1959 · June 5th, 2008

I think that it should go both ways, or maybe that you must contact the seller to settle a problem before leaving neutral or negative.

There are many instances that the seller is really not to blame for a problem, but they are left neg/neu anyways...

raise · June 5th, 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by debz1959


	I think that it should go both ways, or maybe that you must contact the seller to settle a problem before leaving neutral or negative. There are many instances that the seller is really not to blame for a problem, but they are left neg/neu anyways...

While this is true, I think there are more sellers taking advantage of buyers on eBay at the moment than the reverse.

Maybe after this rule goes into effect for a few years there will be a backlash but I think the are still a number of appealing reasons to sell on eBay despite favoring the buyers a bit more.

jclynn67 · June 5th, 2008

I have mixed emotions about this ... I agree the seller shouldn't be leaving negative feedback just because the buyer was unhappy. But what about the buyers that deserve negative feedback? I think the seller should have to leave feedback first ... if they get their payment in the time specified they should leave feedback regardless if the buyer leaves it or not! Secondly, some buyers you just can't please! You could deliver it on a silver platter the next day and they would find a reason to complain! I personally have only sold one thing on Ebay and both parties were happy ... I am leary to sell on Ebay!

Just my thoughts!

Jody

mike2468 · June 5th, 2008

I think it is completely wrong on ebays part. They have made some major changes to their site in the last year or two which I don't agree with, but thats just my opinion.

I could on and on but this is a t-shirt forum, not ebay.

Mike

TiD · June 5th, 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by jclynn67


	I have mixed emotions about this ... I agree the seller shouldn't be leaving negative feedback just because the buyer was unhappy. But what about the buyers that deserve negative feedback? I think the seller should have to leave feedback first ... if they get their payment in the time specified they should leave feedback regardless if the buyer leaves it or not! Secondly, some buyers you just can't please! You could deliver it on a silver platter the next day and they would find a reason to complain! I personally have only sold one thing on Ebay and both parties were happy ... I am leary to sell on Ebay! Just my thoughts! Jody

I disagree. The customer is always correct, sure there's no pleasing some people but that comes when you run a business.

This move by ebay has made shopping there more like real life shopping. You can complain about the shops you buy from to other people but all the shop can do is refuse to serve you.

AustinJeff · June 5th, 2008

eBay has tried many different approaches to "bad buyers" in the past. It looks like they have now decided that, as far as they are concerned, there is only one relevant bit of information about buyers -- whether or not the bidder pays. If they don't pay, sellers can file a "Non Paying Bidder" form. Final value fees are refunded, and the buyer can not leave feedback for the transaction. After a certain number (three, I think) the account is suspended.

If I were still running auctions for very high price items, this decision would really bother me, because I used to monitor the auction and cancel bids by buyers with significant feedback problems. But when selling t-shirts, it's just not worth your time to try to catch the very rare bad buyer before the auction closes. It's just part of the cost of doing business.

On the other hand, I think that doing away with the "retaliatory neg" problem will make some people more willing to do buy on eBay.

Solmu · June 6th, 2008

Personally I think it's yet another example of eBay not caring about their sellers. For the last few years they've been acting as if there's an inexhausitble supply... and so far, looking at their market growth, there has been. There are predictions that won't last though, and certainly if a big player (like Google) ever decided to move in on the online auction field they'd promptly lose a chunk of business.

Speculation is that eBay are moving more in the direction of corporate sellers anyway. Personally I think they're relying on two different income streams: casual eBay users who view the site as a garage sale opportunity to get rid of things they don't want anymore, and don't really care about the money, and VERY large shops who are prepared to come to the table and cut a deal. All the people in the middle who just want to make money are getting slowly squeezed out.

I don't know if it's happening in the US yet, but eBay Australia is also tightening up payment methods: they're going to require that you pay with PayPal. An especially big change when you consider that pretty much nobody in Australia used PayPal locally until relatively recently. I suspect if they try that in the US it will result in an anti-trust lawsuit (no doubt with Google right up front wielding the pitchfork and lit torch).

The eBay feedback system has always been broken, and I agree it needs attention - I just don't think this is the right solution.

Solmu · June 6th, 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by TiD


	I disagree. The customer is always correct

Like many truisms, I don't think people give enough thought before they claim this. Sometimes the customer is a petulant, recalcitrant so and so who costs the business money in the long run. I'm a strong believer in "firing" bad customers.

I also think eBay incorrectly identifies its customers: its actions show they consider the buyers their customers, but the ones who are actually paying their bills are the sellers. Both groups need to be happy if the site is going to be a success, but I they misidentify their corporate role.

reds · June 6th, 2008

I've seen cases on E-Bay where the buyer leaves negative or neutral feed back because they don't like the amount of shipping and handling charged for an item, even though it was advertised.

Girlzndollz · June 6th, 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodney


	I signed into eBay today and I got saw a little notice that says buyers can no longer receive negative feedback from sellers. That's an interesting move for ebay.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodney


	Buyers can leave positive, negative of neutral feedback for sellers, but sellers can only give out positive feedback to buyers. They said it's to build buyer confidence and lessen the fears of "retaliatory feedback" (which actually makes sense)

No negative or neutral Feedback for buyers
The previous system prevented buyers from leaving honest Feedback since they feared retaliation from the sellers if they left a negative. This made it harder for buyers to distinguish between sellers while making bidding or buying decisions. In addition, when buyers received negative Feedback, they reduced their activity in the marketplace, which in-turn harmed sellers.

I read this as: which in turn hurts EBAY.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodney


	What do you think?

I have long disliked the way feedback was left. As a seller and buyer.

As a buyer:
When I buy something and pay right after a win with Paypal, I expect that is going to be reflected in my feedback. But instead, I have to wait for my delivery, give the seller their feedback, and if I am lucky, they will remember to send me mine back. Often times I've had to write to a seller to say it's been 3 weeks since I left my feedback, can they leave mine for a instant payment?

As a seller:
If someone paid promptly, I was leaving feedback immediately, as part of the shipping process. (I was overwhelmed with emails from folks thanking me for this. They felt it was the way the system was initially established, and I agreed.) They paid, their part is over, they got their feedback for a job well done. My turn.

Feeback not reciprocated:
The problem was, many buyers were not leaving my feedback. I would spend alot of time requesting reciprocal feedback for past delivered items. Since the buyer had their feedback, the incentive was low. I flipped the policy and started to leave it after I got mine and the percentage of feedback received went up exponentially.

I didn't like the way the entire process worked, and didn't like seeing that switching to leaving feedback after raised the number of times I got my feedback. I never got a negative feedback, so it wasn't like I got better feedback, I just got feedback more regularly bc folks wanted theirs back. Sad.

One thing I wished often:
Many times, I wished the system would require sellers to leave feedback for payment prior to being able to receive feedback from the buyer saying the package arrived. That would resolve all retalitory feedback from a seller. If an item is paid on time, a seller has no reason to leave anything other than positive feedback. If it wasn't paid on time, they have no reason to ship it.

Using negative feedback of buyers to evaluate them:
I've had to leave negative feedback for buyers for non-response and non-payment, and was saved a few times from selling to a customer who's feedback showed they were non payers on other auctions. Sometimes taking a look showed that 5 feedbacks comprised 11 positives and 6 negatives. Once in a while, I'd see a high bidders feedback dropping during an auction, lol, that was always interesting, but a good way to spot them, cancel the bid and block them from bidding again, as they are current nonpaying bidders receiving negative feedback while bidding with me. For so many reasons, negatives for buyers will be missed, it is a powerful, valuable evaluation tool for sellers. Ebay is putting seller's interests at the bottom of the priority list with this move.

Ebay says there will be ways to block bidders with UPI's in the past from bidding, but I hope they make that setting easy to find. I used to block bidders with unpaid strikes, as well as bidders with less than 5 feedbacks, but those settings took some time to find.

I don't think this move will make things easier on sellers, but I do think it will encourage bad behavior out of buyers, as well as help Ebay profit.

Maybe the rules have changed on feedback, but what about Unpaid Item Credits? When I had an unpaid item, I didn't get full credit. Only credit for the final valuation fee. I still paid listing fees.

Ebay made out just because the auction ended with a bidder, whether I got paid or not.

Ebay will make out like a bandit if they haven't modified their UPI credit system as well. What will buyers fear if they can't get negatives for not paying?

A big problem I had was kids signing on to Mom and Dad's, or Aunties account and buying from me, either without permission, or buying the wrong sizes, and Mum's and Auntie's said "Sorry, didn't know she was on here." I'd email them the rules on protecting the password and being responsible for activities on their account. That usually worked to get them to send me the money it cost me for the listing, minus the final valuation fee, plus the Paypal fee for them to send me the $2-3 bucks that kid cost me. Those fees took money directly out of my pocket, so I tried to keep those losses to a minimum. Having the leverage of a negative feedback helped me work with the buyer.

Feedback was a two way street, that was the beauty of it. Kind of kept everyone minding their manners on both sides. It was leverage to encourage folks to talk it out. This puts everything out of balance.

So that's what I think. Now I doubt I will go back to Ebay as a seller for next Christmas season. Between this and the new fee structures, the encouragement of buy it nows, and favoring of the Power sellers, which I was one, I think the face of Ebay is changing for good. Auctions on eBay: A Dying Breed

Sorry so long!!! I didn't realize it, but I guess I have some issues with Ebay and the new set ups. These are just my experiences with Ebay and thoughts on the past and new systems.

All good things must come to an end, haha, but please just don't do that with tshirtforums, Rodney... we wouldn't be able to take it!!

Phantom · June 6th, 2008

I believe that sellers should be able to leave feedback, if nothing else, then for Ebay's review. Sellers can be ruthless. My brother bough a turquoise necklace that turned out to be fake (per a jeweler's inspection) even though it was advertised as genuine. When he contacted Ebay, they said that they had contacted the seller and that the item should be returned for a refund. Even though it was sent FedX with signature required, the seller refused the item and told Ebay that it was never sent. My brother just got it back in the mail today with a notice that the adressee was nonresponsive in attempts to deliver it. Ebay has denied a refund as a result. This seller definately needs to be pulled or at least given a hard negative. I myself have purchased half-assed packed items that come in mangled. Is the seller not responsible? Like the above post where the seller does not refund S&H. If the item is not as advertised, who gets stuck? There needs to be some sort of checks and balances in place.

Girlzndollz · June 6th, 2008

Mike, if I'm hearing you right, that'll still be okay. Buyers can still leave negative for sellers. But now, buyer can't Receive negatives from sellers. Buyers are off the "negative feedback" hook. Ebay's taking the negative away to encourage buyers to shop more, without fear of feedback on their performance as a buyer. I really think this adds another level of wondering if you'll be paid for an auction when not paid right away.

Maybe this will also increase the number of auctions using the requirement of "immediate payment required". Haha, that's it, that's what I would do to offset this new policy.

Has anyone used this? If someone uses buy-it-now, with immediate payment required, but the buyer doesn't complete the payment, is the auction still left in tact and open? Thank you for your help!!

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