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Digital Michelle · August 1st, 2008

"
Why do we care so much about the cost of dye sub ink?"

I just joined today, Iwas looking in the Dye Sub category because that is what I do. There are two other Dye Sub Ink Manufacturer's in the U.S., that because their dyes are just "different" enough they can compete against Sawgrass. The best of these at $40.00 per color for 4 ozs is Graphic Digital in Milwaukee, Oregon, their colors "pop" so much brighter than Sawgrass, and need no ICC profile, ask for ThermaBrite Brand when ordering for dye sublimation, the other is J-Teck 3 (Italian Company, US distributor is in Danbury Connecticut.) They sell their dye by the litre at $135.00. You just have to "shop", I was beyond sick of Sawgrass' monopoly, and knew that there had to be someone else out there they hadn't gobbled up or stepped on, so I spent 3 hours searching the web on ever search engine, with multiple search words, and well, these two company's dye's are equl to if not better than Sawgrass. Of course if you have nothingto compare Sawgrass to trust me, these two company's manufacture very good dyes. I do not work for either one, I just know that of the 5 years I have been in business 3 of them have been spent using Graphic Science's Dye's with no problems with clogging, or running... I hope this helps some of you bring your costs down to where they should be.

sandollar · August 1st, 2008

Michelle , Do you have some web-addresses to go by? And do you think that I could use another printer other than an epson? I think with the info I've been reading I might just get into Dye Sublimation.
Thanks Mike

DAGuide · August 1st, 2008

Michelle,

You are right that there are other manufacturers of sublimation inks. Some of these manufacturers make ink for large format printers (42" and larger) and the ink is much cheaper. For example, J-Teck makes sublimation for large format printers and is one of the companies that has signed a license agreement with Sawgrass to sell their inks. Here is a link to the press release that was made about this license agreement - Sawgrass Technologies & J-Teck 3 SRL Sign License Agreement for Sublimation Technology. I have never heard of Graphic Digital and they might have a similar license or they might not.

It was my understanding that any company that signs the license agreement has agreed to not sell to printers below 42" wide. There is a post on this forum will a user found a cheap 9600 printer and now can save money on the ink he buys because his printer is 44" wide. My understanding could be completely wrong, but this is what I have been told. If there is a company selling to people how own printers below 42"... it might not be the best thing posting their name in this forum as Sawgrass definitely watches all the industry forums and has sent these companies a Cease & Desist letter.

Mark

Digital Michelle · August 1st, 2008

Well, I use a Epson 1280, it may true that they are not supposed to sell to anyone who uses a smaller printer, no on can tell you WHAT printer you can put the dyes in if you purchase by the litre. I have never been asked what kind of printer I am using, accept of course those times when I have had to buy a new EMPTY bulk ink system. I fill them myself.

Daniel Slatkin · August 1st, 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Digital Michelle


	Well, I use a Epson 1280, it may true that they are not supposed to sell to anyone who uses a smaller printer, no on can tell you WHAT printer you can put the dyes in if you purchase by the litre. I have never been asked what kind of printer I am using, accept of course those times when I have had to buy a new EMPTY bulk ink system. I fill them myself.

I'd make sure you read your terms and conditions of use on the printer you purchased. It probably states that using any other ink than Epson ink or media will null and void the warranty and is against the terms of service, but then again I'm not an attorney but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night

Digital Michelle · August 1st, 2008

Way too fuuny! I like that...
Anyway, I have not had a warranty issue with my printer when I brought it in, I have 2 of them no problems. I have been doing dye sub for over 5 years now, stuck with the Epson 1280's because, well, they're just a little workhorse... So as the saying goes stick with what works..
I really did enjoy the "Holiday Inn" comment

AustinJeff · August 1st, 2008

I wonder how they verify the size of your printer.

DAGuide · August 2nd, 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by AustinJeff


	I wonder how they verify the size of your printer.

They ask for the serial # on the printer.

DREAMGLASS · August 2nd, 2008

Hi Michelle. Sublimation ink is undeniable far too expensive for what it is. You unfortunately have to add these extra costs onto your products, which in turn makes your product less competitive.

DTG will eventually overtake sublimation, which will then be relegated to producing on hard substrates. Its a real shame, as sublimation produces good results.

PRIMJET · August 3rd, 2008

Yes it's thrue of course because in USA two other Companies have a valid patent for sublimation transfer ink but I do not know the price of their products:
-One is EPSON
- Second is Nu-Kote more known as Pelikan
You can also buy a special disperse dye for direct printing onto hard substrate + a special pre-coat and You can print directly on the hard substrate. This Direct disperse dye is patented but not buy SAWGRASS.
Cost is much cheaper that sublimation transfer ink , only You need a FB printer

sid · August 3rd, 2008

As for DTG taking over sublimation, I doubt it. There is no way a DTG can produce the quality and durability on the various products we print on. It will never achieve the "no feel" of the image on all the substrates from tile, metal, glass and fabric. DTG will have a place in the future but it will mostly be in the Tee Shirt business. From what I read in the posts here (and we would like to acquire some equipment) it has a long way to go before the ease of use, machine costs come down, and inks work to meet the expectations of it's users.

PRIMJET · August 3rd, 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by sid


	As for DTG taking over sublimation, I doubt it. There is no way a DTG can produce the quality and durability on the various products we print on. It will never achieve the "no feel" of the image on all the substrates from tile, metal, glass and fabric. DTG will have a place in the future but it will mostly be in the Tee Shirt business. From what I read in the posts here (and we would like to acquire some equipment) it has a long way to go before the ease of use, machine costs come down, and inks work to meet the expectations of it's users.

I'm not speaking direct printing with solvent ink or with water based pigmented ink. I'm speaking direct printing with disperse dye ink on a special pre-coat. I have some photos of tiles with subli transfer and some with Direct printing and I can tell that You do not see the difference, see photos: 3 are subli, two are direct printing

sid · August 3rd, 2008

Look at these images of some of my products with no feel to them. The softness and flexibility of the of the fabrics on the bags and the gloss and sharpness of the metal cannot be touched by direct print.

DREAMGLASS · August 3rd, 2008

Sublimation is great, but I too had to buy a large format printer, to be able to buy the inks at a sensible price and not be dictated to by one manufacturer.

The thing that will ultimately kill off sublimation tees however, is the lack of variety in garments. Bit like old Henry Ford, you can have any colour you like as long as its white(ish) or made by Vapor.

Customers are entitled to better choice than that surely?

imeccentric · August 3rd, 2008

Will,
Don't be limited only by what is "specified" as sublimation garments. I just look for styles from my regular clothing wholesaler that are polyester. I've been printing on "regular" clothing for a long time with no problems. Even in a pinch, poly tops from walmart or wherever work just fine. In fact, I'd have to say that t-shirts really don't comprise much of my business at all. Since I'm an embroiderer, I do tend to have a greater access to "regular" clothing wholesalers, but just because I deal with so many types of garments. By the way, I'm no lover of Sawgrass either

but mainly because of their arrogance and lack of service. When you compare the cost of their inks to a regular printer, there really isn't much price difference, we just buy in larger cartridges. I believe my regular Canon cartridges have 13 ml for about $15. My artainium cartridges run about $128 for 110 ml and about $203 for the 220 ml ones. Carried out, that means my artainium cartridges cost me about $1 more than standard ink for my canon in the 110 ml size and is about $51 less for the 220 ml size as compared to standard canon ink. Does it hurt to buy 8 cartridges at that price, you bet, but it seems to be a fact of life right now.

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