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Susie · July 31st, 2008

Is anyone dye-subbing Vapor Apparel tees?

I have been using the burnt orange and grey Backcountry tees and there is a shiny box where the platen covers the shirt. I cover my tee on top with paper.

Some people say light pressure, lower temp, longer time. Some say less time, higher temp, more pressure.

If I don't press hard enough or long enough or hot enough, most of my ink stays on the paper and the image is dull, especially on large dark areas.

Is there any way to get more of the ink on the shirt and not get the shiny box?

Thanks - waiting for help, before giving up with these!!

Lnfortun · July 31st, 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Susie


	Is anyone dye-subbing Vapor Apparel tees? I have been using the burnt orange and grey Backcountry tees and there is a shiny box where the platen covers the shirt. I cover my tee on top with paper. Some people say light pressure, lower temp, longer time. Some say less time, higher temp, more pressure. If I don't press hard enough or long enough or hot enough, most of my ink stays on the paper and the image is dull, especially on large dark areas. Is there any way to get more of the ink on the shirt and not get the shiny box? Thanks - waiting for help, before giving up with these!!

Sublimation dye needs long dwell time for the chemical to sublimate in the polyester fiber. It is normal to see most of the ink on the release paper. The ink you see in the paper is just the carrier dye. Make sure you use good quality release paper. Plain paper is not the best for sublimation. There is a soft pad made by Vapor Apparel to eliminate the effect of press mark as claimed by Vapor Apparel. The Paper Ranch sells the soft pad.

Susie · August 1st, 2008

Thanks for the input! I don't have press lines, but the whole press shape is definitely lighter and shinier than the rest of the shirt. I use a high release paper recommended by Sawgrass and sold through Starline. I'm not sure which brand it is though. The bigger darker areas look "patchy" as if some of the ink never got to the shirt. When I did large dark areas on Vapor hoodies I simply pressed them for a long time and if the print ended up "patchy" I just pressed it again and it was fine, but then that material is much thicker and can withstand it.

If I use a longer dwell time do I need a lower temperature then? These thin, coloured shirts are kind of frustrating.

Thanks.

plan b · August 1st, 2008

If you are having this problem one thing you can do and it works great is raise the image so that the platen doesn't touch the fabric or if it does there is little to no pressure on it.

plan b · August 1st, 2008

Whoops Luis I didn't see that in your reply,, I'm with Luis on this one

Lnfortun · August 1st, 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Susie


	If I use a longer dwell time do I need a lower temperature then? These thin, coloured shirts are kind of frustrating. Thanks.

I would say yes. When you raise the dwell time it would be better to lower the temp just enough that the ink will still sublimate. Cut up the release paper in small pieces especially the problimatic image and test each small piece with different setting on a scrap shirt.

Please let us know when you find the solution. Good luck.

Planb, it is alright by me. I do it sometime then find out that it was already covered

.

D.Evo. · August 2nd, 2008

Suzie, you didn't mention what are the settings you are currently using that give you this shiny square?

From my experience printing on Vapor: excessive pressure and temperature are the biggest causes of shine because the fabric's texture gets altered - flattened too much or scorched.

If you have some ruined shirts I'd suggest cutting them into pieces and using for tests - print out several copies of the same design and press them onto the swatches one at a time with various temperature, time and pressure variations. Write down the result and find that combination of settings that works for you the best.

I'm pressing the BackCountry shirts at 195 C, medium/light pressure for 60 sec - with no shine. I'm using a Teflon pillow insert and Teflon sheet over the print.

For micro performance shirts I'm dropping temperature to 180 C and increase the dwell time.

These setting work for me perfectly every time, but other people printing on Vapor will give you different numbers - i.e. common practice is 200 C for 45 sec on medium pressure.

With dye sub you'll have to be prepared to experiment a little as different substrates and fabrics may require some tweaking of your settings to achieve the best results.
To me, it's not a reason to give up, more like having fun perfecting my skills

Susie · August 3rd, 2008

I used a couple of different settings, pretty much what D.Evo mentioned. I usually put a piece of paper on top of the tee but I didn't use a teflon sheet on top with this particular type of shirt. I used to use teflon on top - maybe I'll try that again with these Backcountry shirts.

Yeah, it almost looks like it can't take the heat. I tried it at 200 for 50 secs on the front and 195 on the back for 50 secs. I don't have this problem with Hanes and the hoodies. Probably they're just way thicker and can handle the pressure and heat.

Maybe I need to have hardly any pressure at all. I know the dark ink takes longer to set, but I'm afraid if I do it too long, I'll just scorch the thing.

What I did is I ordered some white Vapor basic tee fabric by the metre to test on. I did test with different settings and it seemed to work perfectly. But that fabric seems thicker than the Backcountry ones. Or maybe white is just more forgiving because you simply can't see any lighter box. I'll have to do some more tests with the Backcountry stuff.

Thanks everyone. By the way, my customers just love that Backcountry collection - I do too. I think they're super comfy to wear and work in.

Susie

jpkevin · August 4th, 2008

Hi Susie,

Vapor has a foam kit available. You get 13.5 square feet of the foam, and three practice shirts. They suggest lowering the temp to 380-390 degrees F, and press for 45-50 seconds. With the foam you don't have to use very much pressure, as the foam keeps the shirt pressed against the transfer paper..

Susie · August 5th, 2008

Thanks for the tip Kevin. I placed my last order with Johnson Plastics and I was extremely pleased with the service and product. Very helpful people.

I will order that kit from JP. (I suppose you have it).

I was wondering as far as press lines go - why don't heat press manufacturers round off the edges of the platen and round the rubber pad on the bottom away from each other. Wouldn't that help?

jpkevin · August 5th, 2008

That is what the foam allows you to do. You cut the foam edges at an angle. It will make sense when you get the kit. The instructions with it are very good, and it is nice to get the three practice shirts also. Thanks for the kind words. We do appreciate your business. Feel free to call if you have questions.

azballbusters · August 5th, 2008

Susie,

I will be curious if you figure it out as we always had the same issue with the Vapor Tera Mesa color shirt. It has nothing to do with the print lines as you stated in fact we used a 14 x 24 press and used 17x26" paper to rid ourselves of press lines but the shine we never resolved. We just do not offer the Tera Mesa shirt anymore.

Susie · August 5th, 2008

That's exactly it Azball.
It seems to be the Vapor Terra Mesa color shirt that does this. I don't really have "presslines" per se. The heat seems to affect the dye or whatever in this particular shirt and turns it lighter than all the rest of the shirt. Even at 190 with hardly any pressure you get a light coloured box. Not just an outline - the entire shape of the press is visible.

I'll keep trying though, because I like this colour but it's not something that I could give to a customer at this point.

I appreciate everyone's input. This forum is great!!!

azballbusters · August 5th, 2008

I have tried everything and had little luck and agree it is a great color and a unique color. The issue is the results looks like a heat transfer because of the change in fabric in the rectangle shape of the heat press.

Keep me posted if you have success.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Susie


	That's exactly it Azball. It seems to be the Vapor Terra Mesa color shirt that does this. I don't really have "presslines" per se. The heat seems to affect the dye or whatever in this particular shirt and turns it lighter than all the rest of the shirt. Even at 190 with hardly any pressure you get a light coloured box. Not just an outline - the entire shape of the press is visible. I'll keep trying though, because I like this colour but it's not something that I could give to a customer at this point. I appreciate everyone's input. This forum is great!!!

DAGuide · August 5th, 2008

FYI - Chris from Vapor Apparel wrote an article in this month's Printwear Magazine that talks about removing press lines and a couple of other sublimation tips. Here is the link to the digital magazine - Printwear - August 2008. Page 78 I believe. Hope this link works.