Has anyone else been to TOG's website of lately? Here is a direct link to the page that talks about the settlement of the lawsuit - Letter to TOG customers.
I feel that is a travsty of justice. How can a company copyright the method of printing when they were not in existence when the method was discovered. Big money and Attorneys have ruined this country. I will never support sawgrass because , I feel they are a monopoly, How sad. ....JB
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I was just going to post this...and Mark beat me!!...I have been following this for some time and since the info on TOG site made references to 'later this summer' I sort of felt this would happen. They did the same for Rotech (2005) and for Artainium...(2003 or so) It is not the 'method of printing' as I understand it but the formulation of the inks...in any case....big $ runs down the little guy
I was just going to post this...and Mark beat me!!...I have been following this for some time and since the info on TOG site made references to 'later this summer' I sort of felt this would happen. They did the same for Rotech (2005) and for Artainium...(2003 or so) It is not the 'method of printing' as I understand it but the formulation of the inks...in any case....big $ runs down the little guy
Slam the little guy. ..... JB
__________________ "Striving to help others, as I learn myself"www.coedsembroidery.comwww.coedstsaver.com "Heat Press Vinyl Remover" T-SAVERTurn Your Mistakes Into Makeovers
I guess I can save some $$...since Sawgrass will support a 25% reduction in price for Artainium for a year and since I have Artainium CIS...that would be about $35 a bag discount...I was sure hoping for a different outcome.
I guess I can save some $$...since Sawgrass will support a 25% reduction in price for Artainium for a year and since I have Artainium CIS...that would be about $35 a bag discount...I was sure hoping for a different outcome.
I plan to save money too.I will no longer do Sublimation.I can't in good concious support a company that destroyed the chance for others to compete with them. I guess it's ok for Sawgrass to be a monopoly in the Sublimation arena. I'm ashamed of our court system that allowed this to happen. ..... JB
__________________ "Striving to help others, as I learn myself"www.coedsembroidery.comwww.coedstsaver.com "Heat Press Vinyl Remover" T-SAVERTurn Your Mistakes Into Makeovers
I think there are some things that are important to remember. First, this was a settlement according to the TOG website. That means that at some time during this whole trial that has been going on for years... the two parties came to an agreement. Thus, the settlement is outside the court's decision process. We don't really know what pressures were put on either of the parties or their reasoning to come to this agreement. I am sure people are going to speculate though.
Also, it was not that long ago when Sawgrass was "the small guy" and worked their way up. I actually got the opportunity to meet with one of the individuals that helped with the patents that Sawgrass owns. He is an incredible smart guy. They took a chance and invested money in creating the inks - which is what I am told the patent is about, not the process. They did the same thing that any of us could have done if we had the knowledge and were willing to invest the money. We have to respect the willingness of companies to do Research and Development if we are going to want to stay on the cutting edge of things. The only real way to reward these companies is through the use of patents.
I am not defending Sawgrass, but they have created partnerships with other companies like BASF, Nazdar/Lyson,... to allow them to manufacture dye sub ink. So, they do work with other companies under some type of restrictions. Just some things to consider.
I am not sure if anyone really knows (but maybe senior management at Sawgrass and the patent office) because they have a ton of patents. If you do a search in the USPTO's website for Sawgrass Systems as the Assignee, you will get this list:
The earliest ones expire in 2010. Others were filed just a couple of years ago. So it depends on what is being used in the different patents that they own to create sublimation ink. I don't have a chemist background and the stuff in the patents is pretty detailed.
The appears from the info at TOG website. Letter to TOG customers click on bottom of the page to see..
And I agree with Mark...this was a settlement between adversaries and not a court ordered decision..as in most cases...money is surely the deciding factor for TOG to settle
Unfortunately the way our legal system is set up, it's not about who's right or wrong. It's about who can afford to fight the longest. I completely agree this violates the antitrust laws and if sawgrass gets big enough, it would behoove them to have someone else around (read microsoft and apple) so they don't get split up.
And on the other hand they absolutely have every right to defend what they've worked hard for.
The problem I have is the prices they charge. The markup is absolutely insane and that is the real issue at hand and what makes monopolies so dangerous. And I am sure prices of ink will go up to cover their attorney's fees.
I agree with ramsee1, we are paying for the law suits that have happened worldwide so it realy doesn't matter to sawgrass in the end they just pass cost to us, thats a shame.
Why is this Monopoly Legal and others are not allowed. I think this is just plain wrong. .... JB
__________________ "Striving to help others, as I learn myself"www.coedsembroidery.comwww.coedstsaver.com "Heat Press Vinyl Remover" T-SAVERTurn Your Mistakes Into Makeovers
If I'm not mistaken, there's still room for manufacturers to make sublimation ink as long as they use a different technology to make them, or if they use the same technology, they have to dramatically improve upon the process. Regardless, as stated above, once the patent runs it's course, it's fair game again.
Usually you can't stop someone from making a similar product. But in this case, it looks like they've patented so many things, it's difficult for other companies to get around them. I think that's where the monopoly starts to come into play.
Anyone remember last year McDonalds wanted exclusive rights and usage to making a "sandwich". rediculous.
Last edited by Ramsee1 : May 21st, 2008 at 04:29 PM.
I plan to save money too.I will no longer do Sublimation. ..... JB
Sorry to hear that, but there are alternatives. Find a used or refurbished Epson 9000, 9600 or 9800 printer (you can often find them for less than $2000). These are 44" printers, nothing however prevents you from printing on 17" rolls of paper. Once you have a "wide format printer" as defined by Sawgrass as being above 42" in width you can buy ink from a number of other ink manufacturers such as US Sublimation, BASF, Kiian etc... and their prices are significantly lower than the prices for desktop printers. The price of paper is also lower when you buy it in rolls... If you do the math based on the ammount of ink you use on a monthly basis I am sure you will realize that in most cases you can payoff the extra cost of the printer in a manner of months...
The way I figured it is as follows:
220ml bag of AR Tainium ink $140 or $0.63 x ml ($636 x liter).
1 liter of wide format ink about $220 with little variation between manufacturers ($0.22 x ml).
That is a $416 difference per liter. If you use 5 liters of ink (4 220ml bags x month) in 6 months you have paid for the used printer and in 12 months you would have paid for a new printer, after that you would just be poketing that ammount of money in profits!
Of course you need to do the math based on your actual ink consumption to see if it makes sense for you.
Texas Original Graphics --> Sawgrass 
Re: Texas Original Graphics --> Sawgrass 
