if the DIY DTG process is so inexepnsive, why isn't someone selling the finished machines?
Has nobody ever wondered why if making your own cheap DTG machine is that simple, there aren't dozens of small businesses already out there, offering them for sale?
I dont think the point of this was to make something that is a professional product to sell, its like any other type of hobby thing, kind of like building a go cart For the fun of seeing you can do it and what you can accomplish. It really needs to be taken in the spirit and context it was started with.
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Call me Mister Cynical BobbieLee, but with 98,000 plus people having read [that] thread, it is probably the thought of having a DTG for little more money than a regular inkjet printer, that has stimulated this level of interest.
I experiment with things myself all the time and wouldn't discourage anyone from exploring every possible option. Following off one of the threads on here, I even found someone actually selling heat presses made from wood. What I am asking, is why lower priced DTG printers are not available commercially at the moment, if they are apparently quite simple to build?
Last edited by Rodney; August 18th, 2008 at 05:07 PM.
Reason: changed "this" to "that" to note that these posts have been moved from the other thread to keep things on topic
Call me Mister Cynical BobbieLee, but with 98,000 plus people having read this thread, it is probably the thought of having a DTG for little more money than a regular inkjet printer, that has stimulated this level of interest.
I experiment with things myself all the time and wouldn't discourage anyone from exploring every possible option. Following off one of the threads on here, I even found someone actually selling heat presses made from wood. What I am asking, is why lower priced DTG printers are not available commercially at the moment, if they are apparently quite simple to build?
I think you already answered your own question.
Because to build a more reliable / repeatable DTG machine requires mechanical and possibly software engineering skills.
I don't think there was ever a claim anywhere on this thread that stated the DIY DTG machines (which were demonstrated) are comparable to a higher end machine like a T-Jet, Kiosk, Flexi, Kornit, etc.
I don't think there was ever a claim anywhere on this thread that stated the DIY DTG machines (which were demonstrated) are comparable to a higher end machine like a T-Jet, Kiosk, Flexi, Kornit, etc.
I am not specifically relating just to this thread Adam, but to the whole concept of getting a working DTG for very little money. A lot of people reading this thread might wrongly assume that it is a practical proposition to have a machine they can use commercially, whereas the reality is, that would be unlikely.
There are quite a few videos on You Tube showing DIY and 'alternative' DTG machines. One of these feautures a machine in an oriental sweatshop. For those who have seen the video, I am referring to the one where the printed tee is taken out of the machine then subjected to detergent and a scrubbing brush. In that type of financial environment, it is likely that the machine is a serious attempt at a commercial machine, rather than a project.
I am certain that if a proper engineering business with all the necessary expertise could offer a reliable conversion of existing inkjet machines, the products would already be out there on sale. Projects are fine on their own, but if it encourages people to tear a perfectly good printer to pieces, with the hope of getting a lower cost working DTG printer out of it, then it truly is giving the wrong impression.
I am not specifically relating just to this thread Adam, but to the whole concept of getting a working DTG for very little money. A lot of people reading this thread might wrongly assume that it is a practical proposition to have a machine they can use commercially, whereas the reality is, that would be unlikely.
There are quite a few videos on You Tube showing DIY and 'alternative' DTG machines. One of these feautures a machine in an oriental sweatshop. For those who have seen the video, I am referring to the one where the printed tee is taken out of the machine then subjected to detergent and a scrubbing brush. In that type of financial environment, it is likely that the machine is a serious attempt at a commercial machine, rather than a project.
I am certain that if a proper engineering business with all the necessary expertise could offer a reliable conversion of existing inkjet machines, the products would already be out there on sale. Projects are fine on their own, but if it encourages people to tear a perfectly good printer to pieces, with the hope of getting a lower cost working DTG printer out of it, then it truly is giving the wrong impression.
The truth is that there are several people already using their DIY DTG machines to print and sell shirts, so that is using it for a commercial purpose.
Just to reiterate, noone said the machines will be as good as a higher end machine, its a DIY project for those on a limited budget who have more time than money on their hands. I don't believe it's misleading at all. Nowhere did anyone say its really easy and simple.
Re: if the DIY DTG process is so inexepnsive, why isn't someone selling the finished machines?
This is an interesting discussion.
DIY machine would not be easy for me to build, but for some people they are.
Many of the commercial printers were essentially garage projects in the beginning- and once functional-then the real fun began! The appearance had to be altered to appear professional, parts had to be manufactured to give exact consistency in appearance and performance, a warranty and support package had to be added, tech support team assembled, manual written, testing done, marketing costs paid, distribution team assembled, larger scale production costs ( meaning comitting capital to purchase parts in advance of sales), facilities for larger scale production obtained and equipped, and then of course a reasonable profit margin.
I once figured in a thread here the comparison between bringing a tomato to market and a dtg printer to market. Based on that comparison,for the early printers, if the company actually provided all above mentioned services well- I think the current prices of printers would have been reasonable. Unfortunately for customers, folks who found it easy to build a printer ( or contract to have a printer built), did not always find it easy to create a successful, ethical, professionally run business of essential services, sales and support.
Re: if the DIY DTG process is so inexepnsive, why isn't someone selling the finished machines?
The whole point of me bringing this subject up in the first place, was not to 'have a poke' at the people making their own DIY DTG printers, but simply asking the question why nobody has brought out a kit to convert inkjets to cheap DTG machines, or even offer finished machines for sale?
I am sure I lot of people on here would be very happy to purchase a lower cost DTG machine, even if it didn't have all the 'bells and whistles' of a more expensive machine.
Re: if the DIY DTG process is so inexepnsive, why isn't someone selling the finished machines?
I have thought about selling them myself but you have to appreciate it takes around 2 days to fully convert/test a R1800, for those two days work i would want at least $1200 (less for a 1290, 1160 etc.....) i also wouldnt put a guarantee on it, yes it would/should work no problem BUT......... it would also have to be picked up by the buyer as there is no way you could post it in bits and expect them to reassemble.
Last edited by Rodney; August 19th, 2008 at 06:04 PM.
Reason: removed self promotion as per forum rules
Re: if the DIY DTG process is so inexepnsive, why isn't someone selling the finished machines?
I have no clue how things are outside the U.S., but there are some legal issues (i.e. product liability,...) that would also need to be considered. Anyone thinking about this, should contact an insurance agent and/or an attorney. Each state has different laws and the liability can be far reaching. Just want to make sure that there is the proper protection in case something goes bad.
Re: if the DIY DTG process is so inexepnsive, why isn't someone selling the finished machines?
i would imagine there are all sorts of hoops to jump through to do one officaly, im only talking about a sold as seen no warranty at all type of thing (similar type of risk to buying blind from china), some email support yes but that would be it, before anyone jumps down my throat this is all hypothetical i havent actualy sold anything to anybody and im not totally convinced i would want to.
Re: if the DIY DTG process is so inexepnsive, why isn't someone selling the finished machines?
Quote:
Originally Posted by sodrisc
i would imagine there are all sorts of hoops to jump through to do one officaly, im only talking about a sold as seen no warranty at all type of thing (similar type of risk to buying blind from china), some email support yes but that would be it, before anyone jumps down my throat this is all hypothetical i havent actualy sold anything to anybody and im not totally convinced i would want to.
I think it could be a cool idea-since you would be spelling out in advance what would be included and what would not. I think alot of people would have been happy had they paid lots less for their printers without support- similar to buying used.
Re: if the DIY DTG process is so inexepnsive, why isn't someone selling the finished machines?
There are legal ramifications to selling these printers. You cannot modify a patented product and then sell it as your own. You must obtain the prior permission of the manufacturer. Epson is very aggressive in defending their patents.
Modifying these printers for your own use is not a problem. It's when you try to sell them commercially that it becomes an issue. And while Epson might not notice your sales, don't be so sure that some of the DTG Printer manufacturers wont. They are paying Epson big $ to license that technology. I'm sure their sales at going to take a hit if our DYI projects take off even further.
Re: if the DIY DTG process is so inexepnsive, why isn't someone selling the finished machines?
I am not aware of any dtg manufacturer that is paying for a license to a patent to Epson other than maybe for the ink chips on the new printers (but that is an fee associated by U.S. Customs when an ink chip is attached the empty cartridge). There are these two patents that are specifically for dtg printers though:
1. Digital Imaging Systems Patent - United States Patent: 6095628
2. Kornit DOG Patent - United States Patent: 7134749
I am not sure which dtg manufacturers pay for a license for any patent. Of course Epson has patents on several parts of their printer, but I am not sure if any dtg manufacturers pay for the use of these patents. MasterMind is pretty close to Epson, so there might be something that has not been publicized.
There are just a lot of legal things to think about when you start any business.
Re: if the DIY DTG process is so inexepnsive, why isn't someone selling the finished machines?
According to the Epson rep I contacted Today currently their are no licences issued by epson for the use of their printers for DTG purposes. This brings up the question are there any of the DTG's that are not reverse engineered Epsons
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This is a discussion about if the DIY DTG process is so inexepnsive, why isn't someone selling the finished machines? that was posted in the DIY DTG section of the forums.
if the DIY DTG process is so inexepnsive, why isn't someone selling the finished machines? 
Re: Made my own DTG Printer for $150 
For the fun of seeing you can do it and what you can accomplish. It really needs to be taken in the spirit and context it was started with.
Daniel Slatkin, 
