Discuss the various aspects of direct to garment printing. DTG printers include Brother, T-Jet, Flexi-Jet, DTG Kiosk, Kornit, Mimaki, Tex-Jet and others! Discuss and learn about this up and coming printing technology.
I got 2 white samples from DTG America on Sat, and they're as I expected (great looking but faded a bit after first wash but stayed about the same in many washes after). I'm just curious to see if the other DTG printers out there explain to the customers about the differences in print quality.
I'm anxiously waiting for the black samples.
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Here are my thoughts on this subject. Every application has its benefits and I like to explain them to a customer. Most industry experts will agree that dye sublimation is the longest lasting decorating technique. Thus, it should cost more than any other technique and it is limited to certain types of fabrics and colors. Screen printing is great for some designs and in medium to large runs. However in my opinion (and I know Rodney will disagree with me), screen printing designs should only expect to last 20-30 washing before the print cracks. DTG prints are about the same as screen printing (on light colors), but better for short runs where the customer is willing to pay a premium. I am not a fan of dark dtg prints at all. Too much potential problems with the pretreatment and keeping the same quality. Traditional heat transfers last even less and have a heavier hand, but are cheaper for short runs.
I like to ask what the shirts are going to be used for and give examples as to when one application is more appropriate than the others. One of the best things I have found is to have examples of the same or similar designs done with the different applications (and their price) and let the customer decide. This is not really possible if you are focused on selling via the internet since you can't really see the shirt upclose and touch it.
I am not sure if it is the best thing to put a disclaimer on your website or wall that states you expect your shirt to fade. You might want to emphasize that using proper washing techniques will extend the life of your garment and the print. Then state what the proper washing techniques are.
Others will probably have a different opinion.
Last edited by DAGuide; January 7th, 2007 at 09:32 PM.
Screen printing is great for some designs and in medium to large runs. However in my opinion (and I know Rodney will disagree with me), screen printing designs should only expect to last 20-30 washing before the print cracks.
Not just Rodney It's simply wrong. Sure I've seen shirts that were badly printed crack before then, and I've seen shirts that were badly washed crack before then. But a professional print will definitely last longer than 20-30 washes.
Screen printing is great for some designs and in medium to large runs. However in my opinion (and I know Rodney will disagree with me), screen printing designs should only expect to last 20-30 washing before the print cracks.
I also disagree, and just so you know, I'm not a screenprinter. I have some shirts that have cracked after about a year of wear (30 washes or more), but I have plenty of shirts that are so old that the fabric itself is coming apart, but the print is still well intact (just a little faded).
That all depends on what the garment is used for and how it is clean. I have no problem if it is a standard shirt that someone wears once every week or two around the house. Screen print a little league or flag football shirt and see how long it last. I know the shirts / jerseys that I had would barely last a season. The shirt gets stretched while being worn, most people use aggressive laundry detergent additives to get them clean and just don't take the same care as other clothing. I know that I over dry my clothing in the dryer. If I am the only one that does this, then that might explain my beliefs. I am not knocking screen printing at all. It definitely has its place and will always even with better dtg technology.
Shirts for kid's sports are exposed to stress above and beyond typical wear and tear. Kids are so active they often wear out their clothes in a few months.
I don't think you're the only one who overdries your clothes, either.. I frequently bake mine to a crisp.
Wow, this thread has gone way off LOL. Anywho, we do screen print and vinyl press primarily, but are seriously looking into adding a DTG printer, maybe even 2. It's all about that first initial wash, current DTG ink just can't hold it on the initial wash as well as screen print, at least based on our experience. That's not a big deal, there are pros and cons for each method and we just want to make sure to set the expectations. The thing I hate the most is when a customer expects something then got something completely different. That's all
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We noticed our DTG printed shirts would fade slightly after the 1st washing so we started curing them by bringing the heat press head down to within 1" of the print for about 1 minute, then would cover with a teflon sheet and cure it for 90 second at 375 degrees. This seems to help get a better cure. (we were able to have it on the heat press that long because we were doing 2 passes for a photograph.) This is on a DTG Kiosk.
As for silkscreening, we figure a print should survive about 2 years. When we started in business many of our customers complained after 6 or 8 months their prints were cracking apart. I decided to turn up the heat (to the point where you don't damage the garment) and slow down the belt speed and we haven't had any complants about the shirts or the prints. Once the word spread that our printing was durable our business took off. That was about 14 years ago.
Having sold hundreds of these printers and printed literally thousands of shirts with DTG printers I can say that fading should be minimal on DTG printed shirts "IF THEY ARE PROPERLY HEAT SET!". I like to use a popcorn analogy to describe the way that DTG inks set. When the binders in the ink reach 300' F they begin to set (pop) and they will continue to set (pop) as long as the temeprature remains above 300' F - until the majority are set (popped) - as with popcorn - all of the kernels won't pop (set), no matter how long you set them. When you wash the garment - any pigments that were not set will wash out, that is the reason for the initial "fade" and then flat line - once the unset pigments wash out - the balance of pigments are pretty much permanent. We choose to set our inks at a lower temperature (325' F) at a longer time (90 seconds) than most distributors as we feel that this allows more time to "pop" with less "unpopped kernels" and little chance of scorching the garment - resulting in a longer wearing print.
In regards to DA Guide's comment about sublimation being the longest lasting, try wearing a sublimated garment out in sunlight a number of times - it will fade significantly - sublimation is noted for it's dislike for UV light.
I am very familiar with the effects of UV on dye sub as well as other applications. UV rays will kill any shirt after an extended period of time. The same goes for bleach. I guess my issue with all of this is everyone keeps saying when the shirt is "properly cured." There are plenty of examples of people getting shirts from all different types of applications where the shirts have not held up and probably a lot more where they have been. To me, its about understanding the expectation of the customer. (Back to the original thread since I feel I am partly to blame for it being sidetracked). If I am your customer and you tell me that the shirt should easily look the same for 50+ washes (your disclaimer or warranty), I am expecting that shirt to look the same in two years if I wear the shirt once every two weeks. I would rather under-promise and over-deliver. Just my opinion. If it does not look the same, you are almost stating that you will refund the money or replace the shirt. That would be tough to do with all the costs that go into screen printing.
I do think it is important to tell people about the proper washing techniques. This would be the disclaimer that I would put. I would stay away from saying that a dtg print expects a X-XX% of fading after the first wash. Most of the time, the customers will not even notice the fading unless they hold two shirts side-by-side. We are our own worse critics.
I'm just curious to see if the other DTG printers out there explain to the customers about the differences in print quality.
I think that some do and some don't
I think with any print process (screen printing, vinyl, heat press, embroidery, dye sub, etc) where you are doing custom printing for customers, it's a good idea to educate the customer as much as possible about what to expect from your process.
Sometimes the customer may have certain expectations or presuppositions about a process (like going to a screen printer after seeing an inkjet transfer and wanting a photo to look exactly like a JPG with no halftones or expecting this run of screen printed t-shirts to look exactly like their last run when one printer might use heavier ink coverage and one might normally use a lighter coverage).
I try to explain to customers whenever possible so they can make the best choice for their needs with no surprises with the finished result.
I wouldn't call it a disclaimer though, because that gives some negative connotations about the printing process that might turn off or confuse the customer (speaking generally here).
You can "real life" example of how this is done at CafePress. They try to pre-educate the customers (the ones that care to know) by giving them all the info on their different printing process: Baseball Jersey : reggae : CafePress.com
Right under their "Add to Cart" button they have a link that says "Direct Printing" which links to this page: Help Desk : Powered by CafePress.com
That helps to inform the customer about what to expect from their different printing processes and gives a little side by side info.
in personal experience, it depends on the fabric you are printing on that will determine the quality of the dtg print.
remember, you are printing pigments into the fabric.
we've printed private label for customers who provided their own shirts from american apparel. after we printed them, the shirts looked beautiful. the customer was extremely pleased. then the next day, they test washed it once and the print looked fuzzy and light. and of course they blamed the printing.
we were concerned about what if this really was a problem, so we did a test. we printed the same exact print on two different shirts. one from american apparel, and one of our own custom blank. after print, they both looked equal in quality. we then took both shirts, turned them inside out, and put them in a normal home washer machine in cold water on the gentle cycle & afterwards we tumble dried them on low heat. after we pulled them out, the differences between the two were evident.
the american apparel shirt looked the exactly the same as before. fuzzy, light, blurry. the print on our blank had very slight fading (which is normal) but it wasnt blurry or fuzzy at the edges of the print. upon further inspection, we discovered why. the american apparel shirt's fabric had pilled throughout the entire shirt. it was the pilling of the fabric that caused the print to become lighter and out of focus.
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DTP print quality disclaimer? 
Re: DTP print quality disclaimer? 
