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badsy · November 10th, 2005

Hi everyone, at last cafepress are doing a black t-shirt. The base price is $18.99 which seems rather expensive.

TROskell · November 10th, 2005

Hi

I checked out the link this morning but the site was down. Interesting to see the sort of quality you can get and what process they are using.

Solmu · November 10th, 2005

They keep referring non-specifically to a "new printing process". I would assume it's direct t-shirt printing now that white ink has been developed, but that may not be accurate.

I'm not sure why Cafepress are so evasive about their printing methods.

sarafina · November 10th, 2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by badsy


	Hi everyone, at last cafepress are doing a black t-shirt. The base price is $18.99 which seems rather expensive.

18.99 base price? That seems rather ridiculous.

monkeylantern · November 10th, 2005

Who in their right mind whould buy a t-shirt from cafepress from $19, never mind the mark-up a seller would need to make to make any sort of profit?

bjmason32 · November 11th, 2005

This is an complete rip off for such a low quality t-shirt.

Rodney · November 11th, 2005

Actually, a lot of people would pay a lot more for a t-shirt.

Quote:


	This is an complete rip off for such a low quality t-shirt.

What is low quality about the shirt?

In my opinion, Hanes is one of the best quality shirts out there. And most normal consumers trust the brand name.

I've seen the printing process they use in person, and I can tell you, it's definitely not cheap looking.

I'm guessing they don't want to go into a lot of details about their process because of competition, but they are using a version of direct t-shirt printing technology.

I agree that $19.99 and above is on the higher side of t-shirt prices, but it's definitely not unheard of. Plus, if the design is unique and can't be bought anywhere else, people will pay. In some stores t-shirts sell for $25-$30, so with the right marketing, I think the black tees at cafepress (and zazzle) will do just fine.

monkeylantern · November 11th, 2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodney


	Actually, a lot of people would pay a lot more for a t-shirt. What is low quality about the shirt? In my opinion, Hanes is one of the best quality shirts out there. And most normal consumers trust the brand name. I've seen the printing process they use in person, and I can tell you, it's definitely not cheap looking. I'm guessing they don't want to go into a lot of details about their process because of competition, but they are using a version of direct t-shirt printing technology. I agree that $19.99 and above is on the higher side of t-shirt prices, but it's definitely not unheard of. Plus, if the design is unique and can't be bought anywhere else, people will pay. In some stores t-shirts sell for $25-$30, so with the right marketing, I think the black tees at cafepress (and zazzle) will do just fine.

While I agree that this is a superb breakthrough for the all-in-one 0% investment market, $19 as a base cost seems obscene. Given the vast range of t-shirts selling *at retail* are between $15-$20 online, the only use that I can imagine this being put to are those wanting to make themselves a one-off shirt. The majority of us here, I imagine, would balk at such a price before our own mark up. If the shirt sells well, for the cost of 10 shirts, you could have 30 screen printed, and make 300% or 400% more profit per shirt, *and* sell them for less that their wholesale price.

Rodney · November 11th, 2005

Quote:


	Given the vast range of t-shirts selling at retail are between $15-$20 online, the only use that I can imagine this being put to are those wanting to make themselves a one-off shirt.

I disagree. There are lots of artists and designers at cafepress who already have a customer base of people wanting their designs who regularly get requests to put their designs on black shirts. Because many of these folks don't want to put the upfront money into getting shirts screen printed, this solutioni will work well for them.

Quote:


	The majority of us here, I imagine, would balk at such a price before our own mark up.

I wouldn't assume too much about what others would do. Also, you have to think like a customer who doesn't know the costs. If a customer just sees a design they like, the price of the design isn't going to put them off unless it is WAY off like $30-$50.

If someone is selling a design at $20, adding $2 on top of that isn't going to make the customer think twice. That is still pure profit for the person selling the shirt.

Quote:


	If the shirt sells well, for the cost of 10 shirts, you could have 30 screen printed, and make 300% or 400% more profit per shirt, and sell them for less that their wholesale price.

That's if you knew the design was going to sell well. And that's IF you had your own shopping cart and hosting and ecommerce setup and wanted to deal with stocking inventory, processing orders, shipping out shirts, handling customer service, knowing which sizes to buy.

It's not as simple as you would think. As much as I prefer a screen printed shirt and wish everyone sold them, it's just not for everyone.

Some people don't want to deal with upfront costs, some people do.

Some people don't want to deal with hosting and shopping carts, some people do.

Customers will buy what they want, and a $2-$3 difference in price isn't going to stop them, especially, as I said, when they can't buy the design anywhere else in the world.

I've sold t-shirt designs at $10 and I've sold t-shirt designs at $20 and I can tell you that the $10 designs didn't sell any faster than the $20 designs.

In fact, there is a perceived value that happens when you price a t-shirt at a higher price. So undercutting your pricing isn't really helping you.

Solmu · November 11th, 2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodney


	In fact, there is a perceived value that happens when you price a t-shirt at a higher price. So undercutting your pricing isn't really helping you.

While I agree with the general cut and thrust of your post, I don't think Cafepress and perceived value go together at all.

monkeylantern · November 11th, 2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solmu


	While I agree with the general cut and thrust of your post, I don't think Cafepress and perceived value go together at all.

Exactly. Cafepress is great for a certain type of market. I don't think that's a premium market where you can charge $30 is if it was a high street fashion label.

Rodney · November 11th, 2005

Quote:


	While I agree with the general cut and thrust of your post, I don't think Cafepress and perceived value go together at all.

Again, you are thinking like a t-shirt expert

The average customer does not have any preconceived opinions about CafePress other than what they see when they enter the site or enter a shopkeepers store.

I don't think cafepress shopkeepers are going to make a killing selling $30 shirts, but I do think they will sell just fine at $22-$23 without even a second thought from your average customer

Not us, we know it all

I'm talking about Aunt Flo that is clicking around online, searches for a cool t-shirt for her nephew that likes archeology and finds a cafepress store with cool black archeology t-shirts for $23. She'll buy the shirt without thinking twice.

And not just her, there are lots of folks that don't have any problem with buying from CafePress.

I'm a bit of a t-shirt snob myself at times. I usually will pick screen printed shirt over any other type and I generally go looking on a t-shirt site to see what their printing process is. But I'm not your average consumer (I don't think anybody that is on these forums is, by the very nature of the forums

)

I've also seen the black cafepress shirts, and they look good.

I've also seen the spreadshirt shirts, and they look good as well.

I've also seen the PrintMojo shirts

, and they are also very nice.

Different markets for different people.

I never said that cafepress shopkeepers could charge $30 and be a high street fashion label (although I think some could -- it's about the quality of design above all else).

But while their pricing is on the higher end, I don't think it is "ridiculous" or a "rip off" and I think the shopkeepers there (the ones that already know how to sell their stuff) will have no problem selling the black shirts with a decent markup.

sarafina · November 11th, 2005

I don't doubt that the average joe wouldn't be willing to buy a shirt priced upwards of $25 on cafepress. What i'm trying to understand are the shopkeepers.

If i'm that decent of an artist, with a genuine fan base waiting to snatch up my products then why not take advantage.

Heck even if a blank + screenprinting costs $10 per shirt to make. (Versus $19 base price), that's $9 more dollars in my pocket.

Now, if a shop keeper is just doing this on the side and doesnt want to put much an investment, thats ok. But i'm sure there are individuals who run cafepress as a business. It just seems counter productive to not look for the best deal and try to increase profits.

Perhaps i'm too much of a capitalist? *scratches head*

Rodney · November 11th, 2005

Quote:


	Heck even if a blank + screenprinting costs $10 per shirt to make. (Versus $19 base price), that's $9 more dollars in my pocket.

This goes back to my point above:

Quote:


	That's if you knew the design was going to sell well. And that's IF you had your own shopping cart and hosting and ecommerce setup and wanted to deal with stocking inventory, processing orders, shipping out shirts, handling customer service, knowing which sizes to buy. It's not as simple as you would think. As much as I prefer a screen printed shirt and wish everyone sold them, it's just not for everyone. Some people don't want to deal with upfront costs, some people do. Some people don't want to deal with hosting and shopping carts, some people do

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