This section of the forum is for discussing the business and finance issues of the t-shirt industry. Which business structure to use (sole proprietor, LLC, S Corp, etc), how to handle billing, where to register your business and get the proper licensing, etc.
Hey guys, I have a problem that I'd like some insight on from my buddies here at TSF.
Well, I primarily just do printing and clothing-related work. A local business consultant who works in a business program at my college started meeting with me about my business (because it's his job to) and noticed that I do graphic design. He then asked if I'd be interested in doing graphic design for him and some of his clients. I agreed and he gave me a few jobs to do. Two of these jobs were for his own business, and took 4-5 hours of work to complete. When we agreed upon all the changes made to the image, we set up a meeting today to finalize everything. In my head, "finalizing" things meant delivering the product and receiving payment. We did not discuss any terms before I started the work (which is my fault); but he assumed for some reason that the work for him would be free. He basically said that he wanted to see how I worked and if I was responsible enough (which I understand), but that the work would be complimentary?
So I had a slightly heated discussion with him about the issue and how I didn't know that it was supposed to be for free; and he says that he doesn't want to take advantage of me and he'll pay for it if he has to, but that would harm our business relationship. Simple explanation: If I make him pay for the work I did for him, he won't give me any more work.
This strikes me as manipulation and seems very unfair and unethical. I understand the "long term benefits" of working with him, I guess, but time is money and I worked insanely hard on the work I did for him.
What do you guys think I should do? Demand money and harm the business relationship? or sit back and let him keep my work for free and maintain the business relationship (which I think was damaged by the arguement and my newfound mistrust of him)? Be honest though guys, this thing's got me really down.
So I had a slightly heated discussion with him about the issue and how I didn't know that it was supposed to be for free; and he says that he doesn't want to take advantage of me and he'll pay for it if he has to, but that would harm our business relationship. Simple explanation: If I make him pay for the work I did for him, he won't give me any more work.
In the long term do you really want to be conducting business with someone that conducts business the way he has?
If he doesn't pay you...who knows if he will even bring you more business...
Haha, I don't work free - but I do work inexpensively. He has a couple of jobs that I've been working on with little insight. Even with the little work I have from him, I'm still not making enough to cover my time with all the revisions. He goes to me for "budget" work, and I'm better than that.
I would not let someone manipulate me in that manner. If he does it now and gets away with it he will not respect you and you will not respect yourself. I would tell him you do not work for free and offer him a discounted rate maybe just as a show of faith that you are interested in future work with him but let him know this is a one time deal, with this discount and that because of the misunderstanding that all terms in the future would be discussed before work is made. That is just what I would do though
It doesn't sound like he's "giving" you anything. Except an opportunity to do free work for him.
What exactly is in this for you?
I would just let this deal go and move on.
In the future, ALWAYS discuss ALL terms and get it in writing before doing any work.
Never ASSUME.
Yeah Rodney, you know what they say when we assume...
But relating to the work I did, I still think I need to be compensated for it. Even though we didn't agree to any terms, no one should assume that anything is free unless it's agreed upon before it's done. Do you have any insight on this?
I would not let someone manipulate me in that manner. If he does it now and gets away with it he will not respect you and you will not respect yourself. I would tell him you do not work for free and offer him a discounted rate maybe just as a show of faith that you are interested in future work with him but let him know this is a one time deal, with this discount and that because of the misunderstanding that all terms in the future would be discussed before work is made. That is just what I would do though
Bobbie
Thank you so much for your reply Bobbie, it means a lot that people actually want to put their opinions in this and help me out. I think that's a really good way to go about it. What percentage of a discount would you offer?
But relating to the work I did, I still think I need to be compensated for it. Even though we didn't agree to any terms, no one should assume that anything is free unless it's agreed upon before it's done. Do you have any insight on this?
You have two (or 3) choices:
give him the work for free.
charge him for the work.
don't give him anything.
Of course you should be compensated for the work you've done. If he doesn't want to do that, then don't give him the designs.
If he thinks they should be free, then he should find another free designer.
Or, you can ask him to do work for you for free. Maybe an actual exchange that benefits both equally. Nothing wrong with an actual barter.
Of course you should be compensated for the work you've done. If he doesn't want to do that, then don't give him the designs.
If he thinks they should be free, then he should find another free designer.
Or, you can ask him to do work for you for free. Maybe an actual exchange that benefits both equally. Nothing wrong with an actual barter.
I made the terrible mistake of letting him decide for me, he has one of the high res. files already. I know I should've thought it over, but people like that can be intimidating.
Rodney had a good point of bartering something from him. You just cant let people take advantage of you because once you do they will have no respect for you as a business person, stand up for yourself and you will have more self respect and most people will respect you more because you do. Alot of people will do first time discounts for future business from the customer, figure out something along those lines and because of the miscommunication it may benefit you both.
This guy is YOUR business consultant? Fire him if you pay him (hard to tell from what you said in your original post) if you don't value him as a contact.
BUT be aware that the only thing you spent was time, and that doesn't mean money, it's a bit different. He must be able to do something for you in return... maybe something that would require HIS time.
This could be a chance to get ahead. Piss him off: bad word of mouth. Please him: good word of mouth.
This strikes me as manipulation and seems very unfair and unethical.
Exactly right. He tried to exploit you, and now he's trying to manipulate you. I don't believe this will lead to a mutually beneficial business relationship - he will continue to exploit you until you cut him loose, at which point he'll find another student and exploit them. He's a predator.
A local business consultant who works in a business program at my college started meeting with me about my business (because it's his job to) ....
This is a conflict of interest. He is abusing the power of his position. I can't imagine that any reputable college would want to have this guy on the payroll of a program that is supposed to be teaching students the right way to run a business.
If it were me, this would be my fantasy scenario:
I write a letter to his supervisor at the college explaining exactly what happened. No opinions, just facts. That should be plenty. I would print it out on some nice paper, and also print a bill for the first order, as well a purchase order for a second larger purchase.
I would meet with him and give him the letter. When he reads it, as he nears the end, I would hand him the bill and the purchase order and tell him that I expect immediate payment and for him to sign the p.o. or I will send the letter.
He would hem and haw, but eventually agree. I would stick his check in my pocket, rip up the purchase order and tell him that I would never do business with him again. And that I had already mailed the letter before coming to the meeting.
And I would live happily ever after.
In the real world, I have found that although fun, it is a colossal waste of time and energy to try to humiliate or teach a lesson to someone who has wronged you.
I would probably just take the payment for the order, send the letter, and be done with it.
Business Ethics Issues :( 
Re: Business Ethics Issues :( 
