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elTostador · August 18th, 2009

Hi,

I have a Flexi and my nozzle checks are very bad. The machine was a long long time inactive, and the print head was changed couple of weeks ago. Still with that, very poor quality.

I tried to clean the print heads directly as explained in some posts. You can see how they where before and after. Not to say, nozzle checks are as bad as before and pours really few white during printing.

Hmmm... still after cleaning look bad, right? Maybe they are permanently clogged? A perfect print head should be TOTALLY clean or a little bit of ink can be considered as "normal"? What do you think about the "after" picture?

Thank you!

YoDan · August 18th, 2009

Did you do anything with your dampers?
It also doen't not look like your wiper blade is working correctly, i would look closley at it to make sure that it is actualy working and clean and also your capping station seal.
Dan
"HAPPY PRINTING"

elTostador · August 18th, 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by YoDan


	Did you do anything with your dampers?

No, I didn't... Actually I don't know how to change them. Do I have to remove all the printer cover?

Actually, one of the white cartridges leaks ink from the valve that connects to the damper. I'd change it, but I have to order more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by YoDan


	It also doen't not look like your wiper blade is working correctly, i would look closley at it to make sure that it is actualy working and clean

Hmmm... I how do I ensure that? It's clean... and about working, how can I check that out?

Quote:

Originally Posted by YoDan


	and also your capping station seal.

Yes, I think it seals properly, of that I'm pretty sure.

But after cleaning DIRECTLY the print head (with a pad and so on) and seeing all these remains of ink sticked to it, does it seem at first sight permanently clogged?

Jesus, how happily I'd pay NICE money to anyone being able to fix that machine once and for all...

kevrokr · August 18th, 2009

elT,

My name is Kevin, and I'm a consultant with BelQuette, manufacturer of the Flexi. It looks like there's a bit of work to do to get you back up and running, so I'll PM you my information, and we'll get you fixed. I think it will be easier to do over the phone as opposed to posting back-and-forth. I look forward to hearing from you.

Kev-

YoDan · August 18th, 2009

Well if needed I could re-build it for you

How long have you owned this printer as it seems that you may of not gotten the correct training?
Maintenamce is the key and very necessary on a regular schedual. If you would like to call the shop tomorrow we can go over some key issues that may help you.
LMK
Dan
"HAPPY PRINTING"

elTostador · August 19th, 2009

I wish someone could drive over here. The little inconvenient, is that we are located in Spain ;-)

YoDan · August 19th, 2009

Drive no, maybe fly

Dan
"HAPPY PRINTING"

elTostador · August 21st, 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by YoDan


	Drive no, maybe fly Dan "HAPPY PRINTING"

Well, had the machine been working since day 1, I would be in a situacion today to pick you up with my private jet, most probably

elTostador · August 21st, 2009

I've been intensively trying different stuff with the machine, with NO results at ALL. Actually, it's only getting worse.

All these days, wasn't printing the coat of white as it should do at 1440x1440 as I was trying, but enough to do some other tests related with curing, registration, etc.

Nozzle checks looked quite fuzzy and the print head with ink stucked to it (check previous pics).

But yesterday things got worse.

I started with simple head cleannings; after that, a nozzle check. Channel 7 and 8 wheren't firing ANY white. I purchased Printer Jockey and tried to fire ink there. It did fire.

I performed another nozzle check, and again 7 and 8 not firing. I did a POWER clean. Here it comes the funniest part:

Right after it, I did another nozzle check, and now channel 5 also stopped working (7 and 8, remained the same) (please check the attached pic)

I used printer jockey to fire on 5; nothing. Then, on 7 and 8; nothing (it did fire prior to the power clean!)

So, it seems that the power clean totally clogged 5 (when it was working properly before) and helped 7 & 8 to get also totally clogged (there were firing with printer jockey before).

Then, I tried to just print some stuff... and not only the white was very thin, it was also getting worse as the machine was printing (check picture). I'd do a simple clean and I'd help a little bit... but on the next print, again bad. That's just too fast for drying up on the print head, right?

Does this make ANY sense to you?

Please check the nozzle check scan right AFTER the power clean. The CMYK look quite "shaky", but at least, firing.

Humidity cannot be an issue, altough maybe temperature (right now, 26-29ºC (79-85F). Humidity is constantly between 50-62% (yesterday, never went under 55%)

Before starting yesterday to work with the machine, I weighted the cartridges to check the ink usage (I assume, that 1 gr is equivalent to 1 ml)

* Before:

CMYK:
K: 346 gr
C: 347 gr
K: 304 gr
Y: 319 gr

Whites:
(5): 351 gr
(6): 329 gr
(7): 306 gr
(8): 346 gr

* After (the several head cleanings, print jockey firings, power cleaning and few test prints)

CMYK:
K: 330 gr (-16)
C: 331 gr (-16)
K: 287 gr (-17)
Y: 300 gr (-19)

Whites:
(5): 345 gr (-6)
(6): 318 gr (-11)
(7): 292 gr (-14)
(8): 338 gr (-8)

So, the supposed clogged channels 7 and 8 used up ink too! How to explain then the faulty nozzle checks, the unability to fire with printer jockey such channels after the power clean and so on?

Please help! :-)

jeremyc · August 21st, 2009

I would try to remove the head and hook a syringe to where the dampers connect and try gently pushing some cleaning solution through (there's a tutorial on this that belquette can send you). I've had some success with this in the past. I'd also recommend trying to get your temperature down. Over 80 degrees is pretty warm and I wonder if that is causing the ink to dry on your nozzle plate as it is especially the white. Remember, 85 I believe is the upper temp recommended by Belquette before you could run into issues. See if you can clean up the wiper blade and print head nozzle plate and flush some cleaning solution through using a syringe. I'd get another set of ink carts and full them with cleaning solution and load them into the printer. Do some kk2 or kk3 cleanings to flush out the ink and hopefully break up the buildup causing the issues. Then I would reload only your cmyk inks and leave cleaning solution in the other 4 carts. See if you can get the cmyk firing ok after you get the cleaning solution out of the lines with 2 kk2's. Do a nozzle check if it's ok then reload the white carts do maybe 1 or 2 kk3 cleanings to load in the white to the head. Then do some nozzle checks. I know it's a bit of a pain and will waste some ink, but this way you may be able to narrow down where your problem is coming from and hopefully you can break down the buildup inside your head.

kevrokr · August 21st, 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeremyc


	I would try to remove the head and hook a syringe to where the dampers connect and try gently pushing some cleaning solution through (there's a tutorial on this that belquette can send you).

This is good advice, but instead of pushing solution through, gently pull back on the depressor of the syringe to make sure ink is flowing properly. Pushing any liquid is not recommended since the Damper is actually a valve that keeps the ink flowing in one direction (from the cartridge), I'm tending to think that the initial problem may lie with the inkset being used. I didn't have much luck keeping their inks from drying too fast, and their white ink is sub-par (that's why most relabled Afford inksets offer DuPont white instead). As for the channels not firing correctly, I would check the connection of the Ribbon Cables to the printhead, and make sure they are making contact and seated correctly.

jeremyc · August 21st, 2009

Kevin is right. I meant where the dampers connect to the head. It looks like you're getting dropouts in the white and some jittery nozzles in your cmyk. Dampers may fix the dropouts for the white, however they won't help the misdirected nozzles. That is caused by either a buildup of ink on the nozzle plate (which you've shown in photos) or a buildup inside the head itself. As Dan said, verify that your cleaning unit/wiper blade are working because if it's not getting a good seal or making good contact with the nozzle plate when the wiper goes across you'll see buildup which can eventually cause buildup in your head itself. If you think the cleaning unit is working then I might try the syringe hooked to the head method and see if you can gently flush some solution through until you get those nozzles firing straight down. New dampers in the white section should help the dropouts along with the head cleaning.

sunnydayz · August 21st, 2009

Also on a side note type of question, how old is your ink? Sometimes this can happen with bad white ink, it will clog all of a sudden from sludge being pushed into the dampers. Also try gently flushing your white dampers as well, or replacing them to make sure that your problem is not from settled ink clogging the filters in them.

DAGuide · August 21st, 2009

To explain why you might have lost channel #5 all the sudden, there are probably two potential things that happened:

1. The print head has a very small chamber in it where ink is stored after it comes from the damper (a larger chamber). When you do a Power Clean, you are forcing a lot of ink through this chamber and bubbles will build up. These bubbles will prevent the ink from being pulled through the piezo nozzle plate when printing a nozzle check, a design or when using Printer Jockey (which uses the printing function and not the vacuum pump). The best thing to do is let the printer sit for two hours or so for the bubbles to go away.

2. There could be something that was in the ink delivery system (dust, small particles of white ink that geal together,...) that were forced to the front of the piezo plate that clogged it when you did a power clean. This is one of the reasons why most manufacturers / distributors / technicans tell you when you change the print head that it might be good to replace the dampers and drain the ink out of the ink lines and filter it. As BobbieLee mentioned, white ink has a shelf life and it can cause problems after it expires. I have no clue what the shelf life of your white ink is and how long you have had it. Maybe you can try and filter it (i.e. use a coffee filter and strain the white ink before it goes into a cartridge) to see if there are larger particles.

As for the clogging in the other channels... that leads into the print head picture above. That is one of the worst pictures of a print head I have seen. (If you don't mind, I would like to show it to others to make sure that they know how bad it can get). The one time I have seen a similar thing is when someone raised their ink bottles to high on a DIY 1800 printer. The ink literally was flowing out of the print head. Since you are using a Flexi / 4800 printer, you don't have a way to change the ink height - so I don't think this is your problem. It could be an issue with the white ink not being made to the proper viscocity and allowing the white ink to flow freely out of the piezo plate. Think about it like a car. Oil is slick, but it is thicker than water. If you put water in your car instead of oil, it would flow easier (but not provide your engine the necessary protection). Now if you put maple syrup in instead of water, it would be harder for it to flow. The Epson print head is made for a specific visocity (around 2.7 from what I have been told... not sure how that is measured). This is why the Dupont inks are too thin to run through a Brother dtg print head and the Kornit inks are too thick for the Brother print head. Having the righ viscocity is important. Again, I don't know your white ink set and it would be inappropriate to state that is the problem. Just talking about potential things to consider.

As mentioned above, you will also want to double check the capping station and wiper blade to make sure that they are doing their jobs as well. These two items are the primary equipment reasons for clogging in the printer. Humidity is also important, but you said your printer stays between 50-62% (which is a good range to be in).

I guess the big question is where to go from here? If you are going to try and manually clean the print head, I think you might as well back flush the rest of the ink delivery system --> check to make sure all the dampers are working fine --> clear out all the ink in the ink lines --> clean out all the cartridges and makes sure the ink flow channel is clear of all particles --> and strain the ink. If all you do replace the print head, then the remaining ink in the ink delivery system (which might have been the reason for it clogging in the first place after you replaced the old print head) will clog it again.

Just some thoughts of mine. The information provided above is all really good advice as well.

Mark

elTostador · August 24th, 2009

All you wrote here is great info, thank you all very much.

I'll go radical and change everything to minimize the variables. I'm planning to do the following:

1) I'll get a new set of cartridges and I will flush out all the current ink from the system (Do you use usual cleaning solution for this, or 50/50 with destilled water? I've seen somewhere "flushing solution", I wonder if it's something different more specific for that)

2) I'll replace all the dumpers, the wiper blade, the enconder strip (not related, but anyway), the capping station and finally, the print head. I'm buying all this from an official Epson distributor, and I'll get one official tech to do all this, to ensure nothing is screwed on the way (and we'll learn how to do it properly for the future, if needed). Btw, they not seem to be sure what a capping station is on the original Epson Stylus Pro 4800. Maybe I shouldn't change it, if so?

3) I'll totally change all the ink sets to Dupond, and load them into the system once all point 2) is finished.

4) Ensure the room temp never goes above 80F anymore (and below 50% humidity... but this is not our case)

5) Go to the nearest church and pray all the little I can remember.

Just a few questions more about white ink...

Maybe it will sound really stupid, but... do you have to shake the white ink bottles daily? (I mean, where the ink is stored in bulk)

If so, yesterday I was wondering, if there is in the market any kind of "shaking" plate, where you can store your white bottles of ink, and get programmed to regulary (let's say, every 4-5 hours) get the bottles shacked for 10 seconds or so; so the ink is kept in optimal condition. Maybe in the chemistry industry there is something like this.

Has anybody kept the white ink in bulk in the fridge, for better conservation? Does it make sense at all?

Also, is it normal to have a white "pose" on the bottom of the cartridge after shaking them? Or the bottom of the cartridges should be always pristine clean, with no white pose at all? (you should be able to see through)

Thanks!

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[Flexi-Jet] Printer head clogged? Check the pictures, please...